6MO A TIME

[3littlemen]

After a 12hour night, 2h30 gives us a 35min... that's ot right?

[ZacsMumme]

Not always...they were ut in this house

If you had a good night and your not pushing A times a lot already I'd say it's ut or teething or developmental. Could you resettle?

The A time isnt high by all means for 6 mths

[3littlemen]

turns out is was 30m not 35m... first nap seems stuck on 30m regardless of a time so I'm wondering that it might either be habitual
(is that possible?) or ut? might tryw2s...

normally an a time of 2.30-3hr after a 30m will only get us a 1 hour 2nd nap... usually wakes happy from both. In saying that he is getting grumpy now at 2h17. Can you have learned a times? (ie. used to going to bed at a certain time and needs to get 'busted out' of the habit?

we were dealing with ews from 3.34am onwards (habitual) and I think I have realised that if he isn't fed he can't get him back to sleep... Have stopped the habitual waking and working on resettling himself (shpat) but again, he's not waking up crying just talking.

[3littlemen]

just watched him and he did a massive jolt on the 30m mark... ??

he was getting grumpy and no change of scenery would fix it. He was awake 9.52-12.33 (2h40) but in his cot from 12.15. I yanked his dummy out when he first nodded off (sometimes he sleeps with it in, others out - he can find it and put it in himself anyhow) and he just jolted, opened his eyes and closed them again). He is attempting to crawl, had needles a week ago (with no reactions) and as far as I know isn't teething (though has two teeth).
 We've also started solids but I wouldn't say he's getting enough to count yet. He bf's 4hrly, 6.30/10.30/2.30/6.30 or so.
I was thinking his a time was a little short if anything...

[3littlemen]

bumping for myself...

last night he had heaps of OT wakeups as he wouldn't do a CN and I ended up with a whopping a time before bt....

 he was able to be replugged up until l4.14 (waking talking at each one) I offered a sip at this one, but it wasn't enough for him to go back to sleep and he stayed awake (I'm guessing - I heard him at 4.50, 5.28 when he had a poo)...

 Once out of his cot from then, I waited for any cues for bt, and got none... not a grizzle. put him in his bed at 7.30 he nodded off at 7.42 and woke 8.17 - I'm guessing regardless of no cues, he should have been in bed earlier.... it has taken 45m before he's grumpy and requiring settling..

second nap today he was pretty grumpy after 2hr45? or so (wouldn't let me leave or put him down to change him - that grumpy! unheard of!) and then he cried a lot settling down for his sleep and slept bang on 1hr05....a little grizzling but now talking to himself...

for at least the last week, if not more, the first nap has been 30m (a times have been 2h50-3h) and the second has been 1h05 neat ( a times 2h30-40) but hard to tell as in the beginning he had some really really EW....
anyone??? any ideas???

[creations]

Hi there. Sorry you have been waiting for a reply. I'm just going to read through your thread now and will respond fully.

[creations]

I'm wondering that it might either be habitual
(is that possible?) or ut? might tryw2s...

Can you have learned a times? (ie. used to going to bed at a certain time and needs to get 'busted out' of the habit

Yes it is possible to have learned nap times and learned wake up times (or nap length). If you've been on a 2hr 15 or 2hr 30 A time for a while for instance then LO can show signs of tiredness approaching this time out of habit, getting ready for a nap. At that point you can distract with a change of activity or change of scene to achieve the longer A time you need.  I think you're on the right track, possibly a bit UT, a slightly longer A time could help as could W2S. Keep in mind W2S is going to be more successful on the right A time.  You might want to increase the A by 10 mins first and see what happens without W2S for a couple of days - perhaps go in and observe and be ready to help resettle rather than a full W2S.

we were dealing with ews from 3.34am onwards (habitual) and I think I have realised that if he isn't fed he can't get him back to sleep... Have stopped the habitual waking and working on resettling himself (shpat) but again, he's not waking up crying just talking.

Sorry I'm not totally sure here is you mean you have successfully stopped the EW/NWs or if they are continuing.  Could you post a full day EAS times including the NWs and I'll see if anything stands out?

He is attempting to crawl, had needles a week ago

These are both things that can disturb sleep. I'm afraid at this age there are so many different things going on at once it is often difficult to really pin point where the difficulty is coming from.  Mine more often disturbed night sleep rather than naps when he had developmental leaps.  And some of the jabs can show side effects even several weeks later. Did you get an information sheet about side effects and when they may show up?

[ZacsMumme]

Sorry Hun, I haven't had much of a chance to BW as T is sick
Creations has given you some great advice.

Can you resettle the 30 min naps?

[3littlemen]

Thanks for your replies...
Firstly our EAS....
28/04
NW2.50-3.20?
NF 4.50
Awake 6.40
E 6.40
S9.16-9.50
E10.25
S (in at 12.15) 12.33-1.40
E 2.30
grizzly from 3.45 but would not nap
Bath and then E 5.45
S 5.50
E8 (Don't normally do this but as his BT was so early...)
DF 10
NW 6.25,7.10, 2 something (OT I'm guessing)

29/4
NW 4.10, still up 4.50, 5.20
NF 4.15
still awake at 6
E6
S 7.42-8.17happy
E 9.50
Scrying before settled 11-12
E2
S 2.58-4.30 (w2s at 3.20)
E5.45
E6.10
in at 6.30
S 6.45?
DF 10
NW 8.30, 3.44

Today
NW/F3.44 don't think he went back to sleep until 5.50??
Woke 6.15
E6.15
Sin at 8.45, asleep by himself 9.10-10.10(W2s at9.28) not happy but tried to resettle and smiling gloriously now...

He was HW at 3.34 for a week or so last week, which I busted with W2S, I also discovered if I didn't feed him at whatever time he woke, he was more likely to stay awake until get up time. That doesn't seem to matter now, which makes me think he doesn't wake for a feed. He doesn't wake at night time crying, just straight out talking - which is how he wakes in the morning normally.

Needles don't seem to worry him, he's past the time bracket for reactions now too.

Can't resettle 30m as wakes happy. The odd time he does an hour/1h05 he might be initially grumpy (like he was just now) but I can't resettle as he goes to happy mode straight away!

If nothing else, I am extremely blessed to have had 3 boys all the same......very darn happy! And tired cues, well... unless he's extremlely OT I don't get them... so a time is a wing and a prayer and a guess! (hence why I put him in and he nods off when he's ready!)

other points to note - he has started solids but does a lot more spoon refusal than eating so I doubt that he's eating much... maybe a taste but that would be generous... Also he had his op Mar 24, and prior to this I know he was waking at 3, but I thought going back to sleep.. not sure. Since coming home from hospital we have worked on replugging if necessary rather than feeding at night (2hr observ's caused havoc plus vomitting due to GA so little feeds often to try and get something into him) and these have evened out to being sporadic (except til they developed into the 3.34am habit).

his bf's have always been quick, about 10-12min tops. He's got two sets of forearms fatrolls so weight gain good, though he's getting less interested in bfs - not even having a go at 2nd side anymore, 5-7mins tops

SOrry to hear that T is sick - hope you have a full recovery soon.

[creations]

Wow, things are pretty hard for you there at the moment with all those NWs, the NF and the looong NW too, plus short naps! Really feeling for you!
So, I think what I'd do is push that A time to 3hrs right away regardless of nap length. I see you are aiming for 2hr 30/40 and up to 3hr A time but I think you are also reducing the A at times due to the short naps to try to avoid OT, which is the normal thing to do. However, in this case I don't see some OT making it worse iyswim because you are already settling for 3 naps, trying W2S, trying to resettle then up half the night too.  From WU (which I know starts as a NW you can't resettle) I would do first A 3hrs, if possible be close by to resettle an OT nap or to W2S.  Regardless of nap length do second A 3hrs, W2S again if you can.  See where it gets you in the day and aim for a shorter 3rd A to try to avoid the OT NWs.  I'd continue for 3 days to see if he settles into it. On day 4 stop W2S and see what happens.
What do you think?

I suspect he might need either the first or second A time to be a bit longer than 3hrs for another tweak in a few days. You might be able to judge if that's on the cards.
hth. I can see you all need some sleep there! x

[3littlemen]

So another one of THOSE nw/ew... again at 3.40am so I'm thinking its still a habit somewhere there... ended up trying a feed to see if that would send him off to nod land, but no... so I went and camped inDS2's bed with him!! with the pillow over my head as I could still hear DS3!!

I tried something a little different today, figured if his a time is about 3hr or so, put him down 3.40+3.....

Today's Easy
nw 3.40
e4.20
in at 6.40
S7-7.30
E 7.35 not interested overly,
8ish offered solids, showed some interest for a change
S in at 9.17, 9.27-11.35 (HOLY COW BATMAN!!!) did stir at 10.08 but put himself back to sleep
E11.40 not overly interested,
12.30ish offered solids,
S in at 1.30 as grizzly, 1.42-2.55 (wow!)
E offered again, n.o.i
3.30ish offered solids
grizzly from around 4.45 or so but out in pram
5.15 tried for a nap (arms and legs flailing about so I'm guessing ot or os)
5.30 offered solids which he seemed to take a bit of
5.45 bath
5.50 bf - Super feed...
6.05 asleep

By not overly interested he only took one side. I didn't know what to do as such, so thought I'd try just on guesswork (namely 2hr a time once upon a time gave him a good nap!) I think i'll do w2s tonight for three nights... it's got to be a habit, for the same time each night right?

[creations]

Well, that's totally stumped me!
2hr ish A time and he's slept like a trooper!  Speechless.
(other than to say - way to go mummy, you knew exactly what to do )

[ZacsMumme]

Well, that's totally stumped me!
2hr ish A time and he's slept like a trooper!  Speechless.
(other than to say - way to go mummy, you knew exactly what to do )

This!

Also this 'could' poss be teething. We have unsettled days then very sleepy ones when a tooth is close  to cutting x

[3littlemen]

Not sure on the teething. We got our two bottom ones within a day of each other, but when he was recovering from his GA so can't say what it's like... we were vomiting, not eating up all hours with nurses etc... who knows what belonged to what!

well I was woken by DS1 at 1.50am so thought I'd w2s then and get a few more hours sleep in...wrong. DS3 woke completely..... I think at some point he got worked up enough that he even let out a little cry, but I don't know what time that was. All I know is that he was awake. a lot. I even tried cuddling and rocking him with the very optimistic hope that i could APOP him to sleep. Yup, no luck. Maybe 4.50? again he let out a little cry at some other point (neither of which would be considered crying more a 'anybody out there?'. If he gave it a little more choke he might have turned it into a proper cry!!

So no night feeds from 9pm. I offered bf this morning, he drank one side and proceeded to bite the other. Oh the joys! Weetbix here we come. I think some big boys might be watching a movie at lunch time today.... mumma needs a rest!

[3littlemen]

Well we managed to get rid of the habitual waking I think, by shortened a times in the day and more naps, as well as pushing bt out to 7.30.
after a great night (few uniterested nf's) at 4/5, he slept til 6.30 (ok, in our bed, but it was cold). Offered feed at6.30, one side. In at 8.30, slept 8.40 til 9.15.
Uninterested feed at 10.15.

Anyone? this is nuts.

[ZacsMumme]

Can you post the last two days in EAS format, sorry I'm not sure of his A and S times etc anymore

[3littlemen]

Saturday
Awake 6.07
E6, 7.50 little feeds
E weetbix (maybe 3tsp?) 7.30
S 8.07-9.15 woken by door slamming
E11.30 good bf
offered solids 12ish
S 12.15-2.20 (in at 11.45)
E3.30 little feed
S 4.50-5.20 (in at 4.40 and woken at 5.20 by me)
 E 5.30 little feed
6.30 offered solids
E7.30 good bf and bed
S7.40?
DF 9.30

NF/NW woke 4, v cold, good feed

Sunday
Awake 6.07
E offered bf 6.15
S8.00-8.35 woken self with poo
E rusk around 9 offered bf 10.15 little feed
S11.15-11.50 woken with another poo
E 1.30 or so
offered solids 12ish
S2-3.30
E sucked on pear around 4
E 5.30? forgot to write feeds down
offered tea 6ish
E 7
S7.10

NW resettled at 3, vcold, at 4 little feed, held to sleep at 5.30 then in our bed...woops.
Today
 woke 6.35
E6.35 little
offered solids, maybe 2tsp?
S 8.40-9.15 (in at 8.10 happy until asleep)
E 10.15 little
S 11.45 - ongoing (in at 11, happy until asleep)

[ZacsMumme]

How long was that second nap that was ongoing.
I honestly think your LO is ut all day long which is resulting in ew and nw....

What do you think, what do you want to fix do you want longer naps? Better nights? Less nw or ew.

[3littlemen]

Sorry, by ongoing I meant that he was still asleep as I was typing. He ended up having 1h55.

We've been chaotic the last two days so I haven't bothered logging anything of much.

Today so far...
up 3.20 (i think) resettled
up 4.40? fed and awake (I think) out of bed 6
E solids 6.30ish
in at 7.40
S8-9
E bf around 10ish, 1/3 banana
in at 11.10
S11.30-12.25
E 12.30bf
solids 2tab maybe?
in at 2.30 (grumpy)
S 2.40-3.20 (UT right?)

So at least today, with a big effort to work at being in his cot 15m or so before 2h30 a time, has given 1hr or so naps (all UT right). Do I then stick with this for two more days and do a 2h45 after that?

Yesterday we recovered from town the day before. 2 naps of 20m in the car and one of 1hr all day. yuck. yesterday wasn't so bad, 1 x 2hr at some point.

Would you suggest Ebt or stick with 7/7.30pm?

[ZacsMumme]

I'd go for 7 at the latest...

[3littlemen]

Couldn't handle awake any more so asleep by 6.40pm.

I'm still doing a df at 9.30.

I don't suppose I have thought about it in terms of  nw/ew vs. long naps. Both are nice! I guess I prefer now when he isn't awake from 3.40am!! Do I go for 2h45 a time tomorrow or stick with 2h30 do you think??

[ZacsMumme]

Go for 2hrs45. Your Bt looks about right, hope you get a good night x

[3littlemen]

just an update,

we've been getting much better naps on average. first a time around 3hours or so, next 2hr45, have had to do some big a times to get to bt though, but at least it's working itself out. nws are down to one replug around 3.45-4.30 somewhere in there, I feed at the next wu, whenever that might be.

today was off due to having to sneak a cn in yesterday arvo but it went
nf5
wu 5.20 (with poo)
e solids around 7
bf 8.30
s in at 8.40 but more poo, but slept 9-10.15 (stirred and resettled self until)11.15
bf offered at 11.30
e solids around 12ish
bf offered around 1.30
s 2.20-3.40
bf offered 4
solids 6
bf 6.30
bt 6.40

we've been doing pretty good though, mostly 2 nap days the first the longest, around 1h30-2h and the second shorter... though it depends on the day. bt around 7-7.30 too which is great.
just trying to figure out bf's around solids... I don't like being bitten but he is so distractible it's hard to tell if he's hungry or just snacking! the best feeds are the early am one (4-5ish) and the bt one. any suggestions on that one?

[ZacsMumme]

Well done routine looks good.

At this age I think with my ds1 I had to feed him in a dark quiet room (ie his room) or he got too distracted.
How old is he now? If he is less than 8/9 mths I would be bf before solids. So WU then bf the. Olds 30-45 mins later.

Then again after both naps - offering lunch between the naps, then an early dinner. Bf top up at BT.

At this age the 4-5 one I'd just feed? Then top up in the morning if he will take it. maybe post on the bf board though if your not sure.

[3littlemen]

thanks

[3littlemen]

thought I'd just post on here again... we're 7mths 1wk (almost) and our first a time is up to 3hrs now. it's been giving me a 2hr nap straight up (which is nice) but with the same a time, I'm getting 40min or less naps. Yesterday I even got a 20m one - that's hungry right?
I'm trying to stick as much bf first into him as I can and then solids. he does like solids so that's not too bad. I am keeping his bfs to roughly 4hrs depending on his naps... but sometimes have to feed before his nap yk?  I know you'll want to see an EASY so i'll post....

I'm trying to wean him off what was his 4am feed (well push it out to five) but the last 4 nights he's woken at 2 and ended up crying and being awake for longer. I have taken him into my bed to try and comfort him, and realised last night that that wouldn't be helping so didn't last night. Last night was the worst and he was awake for 2hrs. he cried for the last 10min of it, and I tried to just settle with voice.

 he's been having long a times to bt as his last nap is short and I've been trying to keep bt to 7-7.30.

wed
nw 2ish for ??
E nf/ew 5.50 went back to sleep after feed
A7.15
E offered bf on WU, solids 7.45? or so
E 9.30 or so
S11.10-1.10 (was out and couldn't make it home in time so extra long a time!)
E 1.15 solids offered afterwards
S 4.25 (40m)
E offered bf around 5.15
solids around 6.30
Ebf 7
S7.25
df 9.50

Thurs
awake 2ish settled
E/nf 5.23 slept in our bed until
WU 6.45
E offered bf at 6.45, solids 7.30
E bf 9.20 but not to sleep
S9.45-11.50
E bf12.30? or so then solids
S2.40-3
E bf 3.10
E bf 5.40
solids 6.30
E bf 7 to sleep
BT 7.15
df 9.45
 
today
awake 2.40 with poo then crying on and off eventually getting wound up and going back to sleep around 4.15?
E nf/ew 5.50- then went back to sleep during feed
WU 6.30 (was woken putting back into his bed)
solids 7.30
S 9.13- 9.41 crying
e11
solids 12.20
s 12.50-1.50
e3
breaky I make up 1/2 weetbix but he might only eat a 1/4. Lunch is a tab or so of yoghurt with a icecube of fruit - eats half maybe? and dinner is about 2 tab of meat and vege puree. eats all of it generally.

He is now crawling (and trying to pull himself up!).

[ZacsMumme]

The short nap could be developmental, teeth or ut...if your worried about hunger you can give a top up feed before the nap, or a snack. I think at this age we had to do a shuffle with food and milk

The crawling could be messing with him a little. Any teeth? Can you resettle a short nap? Even with some AP? He could be getting OT but it's hard to tell. What do you think?

[3littlemen]

You know, I truly posted on here cos I'm stumped. I actually thought I'd had it all ironed out...duh. not.

I figured it was hard to tell, with the out-of-sorts easy. 3hr+ definitely works for (or had been working) for the first nap, I just hadn't quite figured out the tweak for the second one spot on. I do notice today (as I said, only started crawling on Sunday) that he's now trying to pull himself up on stuff - and sadly headbutting everything on the way down. I wasn't offering bf before solids but am now making a point to. In fact, I offer when I think he might be hungry, and if he's not interested, I just try later (like today for instance). Days of three naps are gone, he'd rather fight me than sleep. He had to be grossly OT by the end of today.

As for the nights, I'm trying to kick the motn feed cold turkey. I was/am very tired myself, and am in the habit of bfing rather than staying awake to pupd or whatever to go back to sleep. So he may not have 'needed' this feed for ages, and just used me for a dummy (which I think he probably does)/snack, I mean he is drinking but since doing cold turkey it's not like I'm grossly engorged or anything come morning. (and I get that way if he skips a meal). perhaps I just need to pay more attention?! to see how he wakes. in fairness this morning he was happy when I changed his bum and then much later he got wound up.  I know initially we were having trouble (at the beginning of this post) with UT nw, when he was happy.

Sorry - to answer your questions no teeth coming I think, never able to resettle a short nap, usually goes from asleep to happy in seconds regardless of being OT or UT. I'd reckon today is going OT....FOR SURE.

e 3
4.45-5.15 tried for a nap  no luck
e 5.15 tried to feed to sleep, no luck
solids 6, too tired/grumpy to eat much
bf6.20
s6.36

a times normally get shorter (or stay the same) don't they? as the day progresses? So 3hr, then, 2h50,2h40 etc or all 3h?

[ZacsMumme]

Lots of Los like a longer A time as the day goes on, but a few prefer it the other way. It's a very common age for 2 naps, or at least the transition and given things aren't great - and the CN is being refused id be tempted to try ditching it and just doing EBT of 6pm if your naps are a bust. (Obviously if you  get 30 min ones you can try for 3 though iykwim)

Developmentally your at a bad sleep age, it goes on and off till about 10 mths but usually once your through a bad patch there is a good one for a while

So I'd try for a 3 hr A between all naps, some LOs like a longer one to BT ie 3.5 - if you get a bad 30-40 min one you can't resettle then pull the next A back maybe to 2.5 hrs A and hope for a longer next nap.

So when are you offering solids and milk now? - I'd go for milk on WU, after each nap and before BT. You can top up before a nap if you think you need too. Solids 45 mins or so after a feed depending on how often your offering but I wouldn't give solids after 4pm yet as it could be affecting sleep on the early morning

[3littlemen]

I found this rather amazing... I thought last night would be awful... but surprisingly, he needed a replug at 9.30, and took no time to settle then slept ALL THE WAY UNTIL 4.48 without a noise... (he hasn't done that for ages)I was fine to leave him then, but DH had decided he was too cold and brought him over to warm up... sabotage. anyway I fed him and he slept til 5.48 or so.

E 4.48
Wu 5.48 or so
BF 6.50 and out of bed
solids 7.30 or so
S 9.03 (grumpy grizzle-ing in cot for 10mins prior to sleep) - 10.15
Ebf 10.45
solids 12.30
E bf 1.10, explosive poo so in bed by 1.25
S 1.45-3.30
E bf 4.25
solids 6.20pm
Ebf 6.50pm
S7pm
stirred 7.30pm

Is it possible 3hr first up is  too short now?
also, why does solids after 4pm play up with night sleep?
would grizzly/grumping (but not actually crying) before a nap equal UT? it sounds like that or sometimes frustration, but not "I'm so tired I can't go to sleep" crying iykwim
he's doing better on both the milk and solids department, but I am making sure to offer solids after bf and am trying to keep some sort of 4hrly or so gap between feeds, though mostly I just watch him and if he starts hooking into a toy, then I offer a feed.

[ZacsMumme]

I think I'd hold those As, that day is good. It takes them a bit of time to adjust YK? - the stirring after BT is probably a touch of OT but only because he's getting used to the routine I think

Solids don't always mess with night sleep, but they can, and did for both my boys early on. A lot of digesting is done in the early hours of the morning. It adds another thing to the mix with NW etc YK?

Sounds like your doing so well. The grizzling could be a number of things. For now I'd just take note of it and see how tomorrow goes x

[3littlemen]

Am I doing the wrong thing by holding him out and not trying to feed at 4? I figure I can't drop the DF until the NF is gone, right? But then I don't understand why the long nw?
Today was weird...

yesterday his last nap was 40m long, no resettling able despite being worked up, so in to bed at 6.30, df 10 (and just like the other night he did it) no wakeups until 4.10am... it's like he passes out! I was determined to not feed until 5 (he's done it before - well he used to before his operation anyway -that alone is 2 months ago now!) and I think he may have been awake until 5 when I fed him. In his bed afterwards and he slept til 7.30!!!

So today after that awesome start was still ok, 1h10 (10.30-11.40), (2.35-3.55). in bed at 7 though I think he would have liked to be in bed early. With his last nap, I found that he won't settle in my arms (to calm) down, he gets all grumpy and arches his back, and 'talks' yucky - like he's telling me he doesn't want to sleep, I put him in cot and he'll smile and kick wildly and flap his arms about, and start grizzley talking again (Like in my arms) and yet if I pick him up and hold him close (despite the fightin) with his head close to my body (to block out him seeing anything), he usually calms and nods off to eyes closed and 'nawnawnaw' noises... in his cot and he does it for a few seconds andhe's out... it's like the wind down gets him wound up? or is this what youmean by developmental...

today he seemed particularly hungry for solids, but I couldn't get a decent middle feed in of milk. He took a good feed before his first nap, and after his second, as well as his bedtime and 5am one so I'm not too worried.

what do you suggest with the early am feed - should I just feed him and give up on holding him out, or keep perservering? I'd dearly like to be able to go to bed early (hence kick the df) but I figure I can't really get rid of it until the nf is gone... wdyt?

[ZacsMumme]

I personally preferred to keep the early morning feed and resettled other NW because at this time of morning it is so much harder to get your LOs back to sleep have you ever not done the DF and seen how long he sleeps for?

[3littlemen]

No, I've just always done the df... I may try! last night he went through to 3, and then ended up doing a poo.. might actually turn on the lamp tonight to check if he is awake, not just catnapping, but I think he may have been awake an hour, as he woke when dh's alarm went off at 5.45. fed and then he woke at 6.30.

[ZacsMumme]

Pick a night that suits ie a Friday so DH can do the morning and try ditching the DF. I he wakes on his own st this age  you could feed, or try to resettle then feed after 12. Some babies get a little messed up with the DF around this age so it's worth a shot I think. Maybe try for 2-3 days...

[3littlemen]

had a strange night, woke 11ish, 1ish then 4.30- so fed him then and he slept til 6.30am. mmm, Wednesday here so I might start tomorrow night (I'm up too late now to really enjoy giving up the df in favour of an early night's sleep! )

[ZacsMumme]

Yeah it gets like that aye let's see how he goes. Hopefully he might not need a feed till after 12 then go till morning.
If he wakes on his own before 10/11 I'd try to resettle without feeding and see how he does.

[3littlemen]

last night when he woke at 4.33am and I was NOT going to feed... (that sounds nastier than I mean it) he was quiet and then when he'd decided that noise was needed I would say "ssshhhh ssshhh Lee--um Lee- um" - would you believe I didn't even have to get out of bed!! I thought YOU BEAUTIE!! and it worked... well at least I was asleep after 5.40, and he hadn't made any noise for at least 10 mins. The funny thing is, despite being awake for an hour (I'm guessing I don't actually keep an eye on him all that time) he only gets wound up occasionally... not crying all the time from minute he wakes...

Had a weird day here.. in an attempt to beat the OT from previous days (and this mornings long ew) I followed (without looking at a clock until he was asleep).I knew he was ot but I thought his arm flapping was OS or excited (turns out I think it might be his tired cue.. when lined up with the yawns and eye rubbing)... We had a times of 2h50 (1h15 nap), 1h55 (1h15 nap) and 2h20 (30min) in backpack, and 2h50 til bedtime 7.30pm, he woke 8.06pm then again 9.16pm.He woke right on 4.33am (so now it's a habit!) I patted him in his cot and he must have gone off to sleep as I didn't hear him again until 5.30, when I patted him again. He was woken by DH's alarm at 6 though.

[ZacsMumme]

How is he going now Hun? If he is just making noises at mightn't not crying I'd be tempted to leave him to it as you have been.

Those frequent NW may have been from the CN you may find you have to keep pushing As to get to two naps. 1hr15 is considered a good nap but often UT.

[3littlemen]

Still crazy waking up early, and staying awake, though at least it has moved out to 4.33 (which started to look habitual, so I did w2s) and this morning was 4.55am. He had a shocker day yesterday due to family obligations and managed 3 30mn for the day!

someone suggested set naps on the 7-9mth board but all it made me realise is that my days are all over the shop depending on his wu time. generally it's 6.30 regardless of nws, and the first nap is between 9-10, the second is who knows where! I try to keep a 7pm bt. if he was hungry at his long nw/ew he would take a monster feed at wu right? this morning he didn't so I think it was maybe more ot'd than hunger.

 I know you said that you dropped the df in favour of the ew nf as it resettled better. maybe that's where I should go... or do you think just trying sticking to two 'set' nap times for a few days first, trying to remove late arvo ot'dness and the CN!,  to get some structure and then do the nights?

[ZacsMumme]

What is your LOs personality? - as long as your LO isn't sensitive to OT or touchy set naps can work well at this age. You do have to push through  the OT though.

So if you did set naps most people pick a desired WU ie 6 then set the naps from there.
WU 6
Am nap 9-10.30/11
Pm nap 1/1.30-3/3.30 (work out the set time you prefer)
BT 6.30/7

I think during the transition to set naps if you get two terrible 30 min naps you can offer a CN. Or pull BT earlier to say 6pm.

I do think though if you want to do set naps it may be worth posting on the naps board. I never used them ieth my boys till they were solidly on 1 nap. Also, I think you need to give the set naps a good 2 wks. What do you think?

[3littlemen]

Absolutely agree with you on the two weeks. I have given not feeding at 4am (until wakeup) that long now, though tbh, I can't say 100% if it has been successful.
This is today,
6.30 wu and bf
7.30 solids
9.30 in bed
9.40-10.40 nap
11 bf (ok)
12.30 solids
1.40pm offered bf (ok) trying to fall asleep
1.55pm - 3.15 woke crying, resettled until 3.30pm
5.30 offered bf

will give dinner at 6.15 or so bath then bf and bed by 7
the df has worked out later most nights lately to closer to 10pm... am I being unrealistic in kicking the nf? just don't want to feed him again, if I've tried weaning it off for this long now

[ZacsMumme]

That day looks great! I think re the NF you have to go with what you think is best for you and him. I noticed your giving 3 solid meals a day which can be too much for so e 6-7 mth olds. I'm wondering if the EMW could be digestion related. I found Solids after 4pm often upset my boys sleep in the early hours of the morning..May be worth trying to pull it earlier or ditch dinner and top up with Breastmilk instead.

I'm not sure about the NF...do you think he needs it or not? - maybe post on the BF board to see what people think?

[3littlemen]

This post has been going on so long now, he's going to be 8mo on the 18th!

Ok so last night

6.15 solids
6.30 bath
6.40 bf
6.50 asleep
stirred at 7 self settled
df at 10 but only offered one side
3.15 woke crying so fed
4.40 woke, self settled I guess (I didn't get up anyway)
5.45 DH's alarm woke him
6.30 out of bed not interested in bf

I do remember if I fed in the night I'd get 2hr mnore sleep afterwards before he wakes for the day. (hence why I started to push it out in the beginning)

[ZacsMumme]

Maybe given so much has changed in the last two months it's worth posting a new thread in general sleep for fresh eyes? 
E looks ok really then if eyes 8 mths.