Author Topic: Want to start EASY but have questions  (Read 3539 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline laurab0228

  • New & Learning The Ropes
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 37
  • Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Want to start EASY but have questions
« on: May 06, 2014, 08:09:01 am »
My daughter is almost 10 weeks old and I want to try an EASY routine. I bought the book to get started but have questions.

The example in the book show you starting with a child older than 4 months.  I should of course stick with a 3 hour EASY, so I should start at 7:00 am correct? She's been sometimes waking at 5:00 or so to eat so I should feed her, put her back to bed and then start at 7:00 correct? Even if she won't go back down I should ssh-pat her until then right? The book says to p.u./p.d. (obviously at 10 weeks I shouldn't do that, I will need to ssh-pat) until 7:00 of she wakes earlier, but I should feed her if she's hungry, correct?

How often and at what time do you typically experience your little one at this age waking up to feed in the middle of the night on the EASY routine, even with a dream feed?

After I had established the EASY routine I have other questions:
How do you  handle outings? Do you try to go during his/her A time or S time? My little one sleeps in the stroller and the car so I'm not sure which to do.
occasionally we will have a scheduled event (doctor's visit for example) that lands in the middle of either our E or S time. How do you handle that and get back on track? What about vacations?

Some background on the routine I tried to establish:
6:00-7:00 wake and feed
Awake hour to hour and a half and then nap. (She never has been able to nap without me holding her and I now know that I need to correct that right away). She usually has like one yawn (no eye rubbing or any  other sign of sleepiness) then drift off to sleep in my arms ( I can't ever seem to put her down without crying). She will sleep for about 45 minutes then wake up.  I then try to feed her even if she doesn't show signs of hunger because I was trying to follow a eat, play, sleep routine. This continues during the day and then I try to bath her around 6:00-7:00 then feed her right after a bath. Then I try to cluster feed her again around 8:30-9:00. She is usually pretty sleepy by then and does go right to bed without much complaint in her bassinet. 
Wakes at 1:00-2:00 and I feed her and she usually goes right back to bed until 5:00 which I feed her again then I try to put her back down until at least 7:00 but it doesn't usually work.

 Terrible routine I know. But just wanted to provide some background. 
She's a good eater usually taking about 30 minutes to eat.

please provide some insight for me. I will probably have more questions as I go along but I wanted to get started ASAP. 

THANKS!

Offline Jbla17

  • New, But Posting Steadily!
  • **
  • Showing Appreciation 3
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 74
  • Location: Australia
Re: Want to start EASY but have questions
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2014, 05:38:53 am »
Hi  :)

I noticed you had no replies so ill try to answer a few of your questions and hopefully some of the other ladies will take a look as well cos this reply will bump you up on the board.

First of all.... You are doing a great job! As everyone here will tell you EASY is a routine and not a schedule and you want it to work for you and your LO.

Stick with a 3 hour EASY for now I think it is age appropriate. You would be looking at going to a four hour routine after four months old. In saying that I have only in the last couple of weeks started a proper 4 hour routine with my almost 6 month old. You may need to do a 3.5 hour routine before a 4 or even a combo of both has worked for me.

You don't have to start your day at 7am but it is most common. Again what times work for you. Definitely if your LO is hungry then feed at 5am if this is when she wakes. You can then style to sleep and go for a wake up between 7-8.

Different babies will want to feed at different times during the night. By the looks your wants to feed at 1-2 and around 5 and that amount is normal. I always found there was a 5am waking feed or no feed. Now my DD will settle herself back to sleep and I wake her at 7. You might find your LO will drop feeds on her own as mine did. They do it when they are ready though as long as you are not the prop to fall asleep.

With regards to going out a.k.a ....having a life!! I completely understand how you feel about this. When my DD was a lot littler I could take her out at the start of her wake time and wherever we were at her sleep time she would sleep. Around 4 months this stopped happening or would only do one sleep cycle. I would either accept that was it for that nap and just offer her next one a bit earlier. As they get older wake tines increase to the point where you can go out just in A time and be home in time for a nap. That's what I'm trying to do these days. My LO has a wake time now .
between 2.5-3hrs.

Don't worry too much about feeding as soon as she wakes unless she is hungry!! I would just feed at the 3 hr mark so your day would look more like EASAEAS and that's ok. The main thing is to separate feeding from sleeping

As for you questions on shhh/pat an PUPD, I am hoping another poster could give you some suggestions as I don't have a lot of experience with either as DD has generally self settled from early on.

Hope that this helps you.... You are doing great  ;)


Offline Jbla17

  • New, But Posting Steadily!
  • **
  • Showing Appreciation 3
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 74
  • Location: Australia
Re: Want to start EASY but have questions
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2014, 05:41:19 am »
Settle to sleep not style to sleep!! What the?!  ;)

Offline laurab0228

  • New & Learning The Ropes
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 37
  • Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Re: Want to start EASY but have questions
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2014, 07:07:43 am »
Thank you so much! I spent all day today implementing the EASY routine and I must say I already see improvements and change. Nap time was my biggest problem obviously as it took a lot of ssh-patting to get her to settle on her own. However, now that she's got longer naps she seems WAY happier and more content during her activity time.  She must not have been getting enough sleep during the day.

I haven't quite got the hang of dream feeding so she might still wake up 2 times tonight but we shall see! :)

Offline creations

  • Feeding Solid Food & EASY
  • Moderator
  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 496
  • Posts: 21993
  • Location: UK
Re: Want to start EASY but have questions
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2014, 07:10:52 am »
Hello and welcome to BW :)

I see you already had great advice from Jbla17 :)  I think most of your questions were answered.
This link may help clarify shush/pat
Shush-pat - How to
We don't call it PU/PD because that method involves timing how long you hold baby before putting down, but with shush/pat you do still pick up if baby is crying and continue shush/pat until totally calm (or asleep) then continue in the crib.

For your morning start, it's ok to begin earlier than the routines shown the books. If you want to begin your day at 6am that's fine, and if your LO is waking at 5am for a feed and not settling back down to sleep you might find getting her up at 6am is preferable to shush/patting all the way to 7am which would be very hard work if she is crying. It's really your choice, Tracy did help LOs to establish a routine by staying with them in the bedroom until WU time, but many of us here know that this can be a challenging way to start the day so often we accept an earlier wake up and reserve some of our energy for the rest of the day.
My LO was always up at 5am and beyond the first few weeks I was unable to get him back to sleep.

You could also use the W2S method to try to extend the naps, scroll down to naps option 1 for shush/patting through the transition
How do I address habitual wakings? (wake-to-sleep and other methods)

You might also find these links useful
Starting EASY - all you need to know and more!
Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!
Teaching Sleep to Newborns and Young Infants

It's also very normal to have 1 or 2 NFs plus the DF at this age. Gradually your LO will be able to do one longer stretch of sleep. STTN is considered a 5hr stretch, your LO might already be doing this - it never felt like sleeping through the night to me ;)


Offline laurab0228

  • New & Learning The Ropes
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 37
  • Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Re: Want to start EASY but have questions
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2014, 12:12:34 pm »
Thanks! I do have a few more questions.  Can I use a soother with her ssh-pat? Sometimes she manages to get out of her swaddle during the ssh-pat. Should I swaddle her again?

Offline creations

  • Feeding Solid Food & EASY
  • Moderator
  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 496
  • Posts: 21993
  • Location: UK
Re: Want to start EASY but have questions
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2014, 14:09:20 pm »
Yes, Tracy suggested using a paci for comfort, I think it's also one of the things recommended that may avoid SIDS.  Tracy's method was to let LO suck during the rapid sucking on the paci and to remove once the sucking slows, removing it avoids it becoming a prop - although it can be weaned much later if your LO likes it and it does become a prop.
You can re-swaddle her, maybe have a look into various swaddling methods (I used the DUDU - down up down up, you can look up Dr Harvey Karp for video clips on this swaddle, nice and snug and she shouldn't get out. Or look into something like the woombie, not used one myself but they seem to get good reviews). I actually stopped swaddling at 10 wks, just used it for calming rather than during sleep. it's up to you and how she sleeps best.


Offline laurab0228

  • New & Learning The Ropes
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 37
  • Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Re: Want to start EASY but have questions
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2014, 15:18:30 pm »
Thanks for the help.  I'm into day 2 and I am trying to get her settled into her first nap. I have been sitting here a while! Is it possible to ssh-pat too long? I am afraid I might have done that.

Offline creations

  • Feeding Solid Food & EASY
  • Moderator
  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 496
  • Posts: 21993
  • Location: UK
Re: Want to start EASY but have questions
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2014, 16:46:14 pm »
If LO is calm and drowsy you can put her down to sleep. If she fusses you can continue to shush/pat in the crib, if she remains calm when you put her down you can leave her :)  She may stare for a while before dropping off to sleep. If she cries you return to continue shush/pat.
It's hard to say what is 'too long' because at this age she likely needs help and comfort to calm and begin to fall to sleep, although some at this age can and do fall to sleep independently, it depends on their personality and how they are used to sleeping up to now.  you don't have to shush/pat all the way into deep sleep if she doesn't need it, on the other hand it's fine to do so if she does need it - and every nap may be different at this point.


Offline laurab0228

  • New & Learning The Ropes
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 37
  • Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Re: Want to start EASY but have questions
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2014, 17:34:25 pm »
Thank you soooo much! I feel the more I go through this the more questions pop up in my head. I'm just so worried I'm doing something wrong at every turn.  I feel bad bothering you with all these questions.

THANKS A BUNCH!

Offline laurab0228

  • New & Learning The Ropes
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 37
  • Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Re: Want to start EASY but have questions
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2014, 19:13:03 pm »
Oh god! I have been ssh-patting for hours! :-[ a few more questions, again, sorry for all the bother. 

So I put her down for her 10:00 nap and managed to get her to sleep for about 45 minutes after about 20 minutes of ssh-patting, but I could just not get her to sleep again.  By this time it was time for her feed. So I picked her up crying and fed her. Was I supposed to make sure she was asleep before I picked her up and fed her? Does she need to be in deep sleep for a while before I need to feed her? I have only been successful 3 times since yesterday morning to get her into a deep sleep.  I actually could tell because I had to wake her. Every other time she's woken up and noticed I wasn't there so she cried and I fed her because I needed to stay on the routine. Should I make sure she's in a deep sleep or should I get her up crying? Her worst nap yesterday was the same one the 10:00 one.

Also with the soother, there are times I have given it to her with her ssh-pat and there are times she uses it, spits it out and then will settle in fine for a sleep. Then there are other times I give it to her and she will use it, spit it out for a while, and then be rooting for it all through her nap. There was even one time during the night that I got her back to sleep with just giving her the soother.  So I'm confused,  do I use it or not?

I am going insane!

Offline laurab0228

  • New & Learning The Ropes
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 37
  • Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Oh God!
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2014, 19:27:43 pm »
I'm going crazy. On day two of implementing the EASY routine.  I don't know if I can preserve! :'( :'(

Offline Buttonbobs

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 124
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 6873
  • E - born 20/10/11
  • Location: Hampshire - England
Re: Want to start EASY but have questions
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2014, 21:32:20 pm »
Hey honey, I've merged your two topics as they are essentially the same subject. But here to add more support. You've had great advice so far.

What does your routine look like? What times are you trying for sleep each day? A 45 minute nap can just be a developmental thing but it can be because an LO is not quite tired enough to sleep for a long time. Looking at the timings of things can help us to see which it might be. Also, how long are you trying to do shh pat?

Adding hugs, this can be a tough time. What about trying to extend one nap per day, and using APOP methods (allowing baby to sleep in a sling/in a pushchair/pram) to get you some rest for a few naps and then once that one nap gets better applying the techniques to other naps. What do you think?
~ Naomi ~




Offline creations

  • Feeding Solid Food & EASY
  • Moderator
  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 496
  • Posts: 21993
  • Location: UK
Re: Want to start EASY but have questions
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2014, 21:52:32 pm »
Stopping by with a hug.
Try not to panic, it is very early days and your baby is still very young.  If you just recently read the book you might have all sorts of fears of AP or doing something wrong. Be kind to yourself and try not to panic. So long as you are supporting your baby through her difficulties you are not doing anything 'wrong'. Any kind of prop or AP habit can be sorted out and it doesn't need to be today. The number 1 thing I took from BW is respect for my baby, never leaving him to cry alone, and focusing on building and maintaining the trust bond.  Even if she doesn't sleep you are holding her and comforting her and she knows that.

How did she sleep before you started EASY and shush/pat?  As Naomi has said, if there is a way you can APOP a nap to get yourself a break then do it.  I know Tracy suggested all naps in her own crib but having a baby who *can* nap in a pram is actually very handy for getting out and about.

And don't worry about bothering us with questions, we all arrived here needing help and support just as you have.
You'll get through this.


Offline Jbla17

  • New, But Posting Steadily!
  • **
  • Showing Appreciation 3
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 74
  • Location: Australia
Re: Want to start EASY but have questions
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2014, 22:26:35 pm »
Sending you a hug too  :)

As creations said dont panic she is so little and obviously needs you!! Please don't think you are doing something wrong.... You are mum and you should trust your instincts before worry too much about whether your LO is on schedule. 

It will all come together for you... I know how you are feeling. That there must be something that you are doing wrong but its simply untrue.

I have a fair few, what I think are silly questions on here but have been met with support and empathy. Everyone here knows how tough the first few months are. It's awful but it gets soooooooo much better!!

Also try to do something for yourself. Do you have any help at home? Grandma or Daddy that can take care of LO for a couple of hours just so you can breathe and relax. Catch up with a friend for a coffee or just go out for a walk or to the shops. Whatever you would like to do  :)

Let us know how you are doing x

Offline laurab0228

  • New & Learning The Ropes
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 37
  • Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Re: Want to start EASY but have questions
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2014, 22:35:54 pm »
Thanks a bunch.  I just feel overwhelmed.  Yesterday wasn't so bad but today seems worse and I was expecting it to get better

my routine:
7:00 wake up
7:00-7:20 E
7:20-8:00 A
8:00-8:15 wind down
8:15-10:00 S

10:00-10:20 E
10:20-11:00 A
11:15-11:15 wind down
11:15-1:00 S

1:00-1:20 E
1:20-2:00 A
2:00-2:15 wind down
2:15-4:00 S

4:00-4:20 E
4:20-5:00 A
5:00-5:15 wind down
5:15-6:00 cat nap

6:00-6:20 E
6:20-7:15 A
7:15 bath
7:30-8:00 E
8:00 Bed time
10:00-10:30 ish dream feed

3:00-4:00 night feed

She usually sleeps in the car or stroller but I've had mild success with that. She usually wakes up about 15 minutes when we come home and then she wakes.  I've tried the swing but she only sleeps about 30-45 minutes and then wakes up. 

My biggest problem is the naps. She usually goes down at night pretty good but she used to only nap if I was holding her and usually only for 30-45 minutes. I am really trying to break the nap habit of her only sleeping with me. I can get her to nap for about 30-45 minutes (45 minutes if I'm lucky) and then she wakes.  Maybe it's habitual waking?

She also HATES being swaddled when I try the wind down.  She cries pretty loudly.  I have a sleeping bag where she can have her arms free and I haven't tried it yet. It may be that my wind down is the problem.  She protests so loudly to being swaddled that I need to calm her big time with ssh-pat right after I swaddle her.  There is no sitting quietly and relaxing unless I ssh-pat. Then I lay her down after she's calm. Sometimes she snoozes for 30-45 minutes and sometimes she wakes right away and I'm ssh-patting for an hour.

I do notice that she is WAY happier between naps even if she hasn't had a good one. Probably because she gets more sleep even if she wakes. (I have been committed to keeping her down for almost her whole nap time, unless she's really screaming, even if I have to ssh-pat the whole nap). This last nap I ssh-patted for 7-10 minutes and she was able to settle and sleep for about 40 minutes. Again I think it might be that she's habitually waking during her naps.

I really want to get her to nap on her own so I can have some Y time as I haven't had much since she was born.

Thanks a bunch!  I feel better now. I just need some reassuring.

Offline Jbla17

  • New, But Posting Steadily!
  • **
  • Showing Appreciation 3
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 74
  • Location: Australia
Re: Want to start EASY but have questions
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2014, 23:09:11 pm »
Hey, just wanted to add something about swaddling. It can be hard to get right especially when she is protesting. I used the Woombies and Ergo Cocoon. The just zip right up with no fuss. The Ergo have a little more give in them so LO can move her arms to where she feels comfy. Some bubs like to have their hands near their face as that's how they were in your tummy. If it was me I would hold off on the sleeping bag until she has more control over her hands and arms. I think we did the transition about 3.5 months.

Don't give up on naps just yet. You might find your LO is a legitimate catnapper and end up organising your routine around that. My friend had a catnapper and found that once his A times increased to the point of a 2 nap possibility his naps came together and he slept for 1.5 hours or more. Sonetimes their sleep development takes longer than others. It seems as though you have been successful in extending done naps though so as I said dont throw it all out the window.

Hugs mummy x

Offline laurab0228

  • New & Learning The Ropes
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 37
  • Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Re: Want to start EASY but have questions
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2014, 23:35:00 pm »
She always seemed so grouchy when she awoke from her cat naps with me or even when I laid her down on her own. How do I adjust her routine if she is a cat napper?

She was a good night sleeper as I said, but it was because one of us would hold her until she fell asleep and then lay her down. And she would sleep up to 6 hours sometimes 8! I have a crib aquarium thing that she likes to watch.  Could I lay her down in her crib and let her watch it until she fell asleep?

As for swaddling she protests the instant you lay her down on the blanket, like before I have even attempted folding it around her.

To give you some background.  When it's her A time I lay her on her play mat to play or in her bouncy chair. Then she gets a little fussy and I pick her up to play with her on my chest or read to her. Then I notice her getting sleepy so I start my wind down. Holding her the whole time.

Also I think she might have a little acid reflux every now and then. She sometimes coughs while feeding but I thought maybe my letdown was too fast. She has vomited after a feeding though that hasn't happened often. And she does get cottage cheese like spit up sometimes.  It doesn't bother her to sleep at night though. It the ssh-pat not good then? You're not supposed to pat babies backs to burp them if they have reflux.  Could the pat be bothering her? What else should I do?

I also lay her in her bassinet and not her crib to sleep yet. Should I try the crib?


Offline laurab0228

  • New & Learning The Ropes
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 37
  • Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Re: Want to start EASY but have questions
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2014, 00:39:00 am »
Thanks for all the support.  :-* I had a bit of a breakdown but now that my husband is home I feel better.  He took her for a while  so I could calm down a bit. I think for tonight I will just try to relax. I will bath her like I always do and them feed her and settle her in to bed like I always did before so I can get a break.  I will try to dream feed tonight again ( I've only tried it once) but other than that I will try to get some sleep. I try it all again tomorrow though.  But I did think of a few things I can try tomorrow. I will sit back and observe for now.


Offline Buttonbobs

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 124
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 6873
  • E - born 20/10/11
  • Location: Hampshire - England
Re: Want to start EASY but have questions
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2014, 06:42:31 am »
Hugs honey, you are doing absolutely fine. When babies are so small it can be overwhelming looking after them - it certainly was for me.

Looking at the routine you've posted, I assume that's what you're aiming for rather than when she is axial leg sleeping - so she's sleeping the first 45 mins or so of the nap time and the rest you are leaving her to lie down and shh pat? The thing is, EASY is a routine but it is a flexible one. It's not times to the minute and you can be more relaxed about trying to settle for the whole nap time. Personally I could only manage that once per day without going stir crazy.

So are you getting a 45 min nap for the first nap of the day at 8.15am?

As I mentioned above, 45 mins can be an indicator than LOs are getting ready to want to be awake a little longer between naps. As your DD is 10 weeks old she might be starting to lengthen her A times. This link shows you the average A times for different ages:
Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!
At around 3 months of age, babies start to need a little longer in between sleeps. If you are getting a 45 min nap, why not try putting her down a little bit later - say aiming for 8.25 rather than 8.15 and do that for 3 days and see if it makes a difference. If she wakes at the 45 min point, stay with her and try to shh pat for a short while but if she won't settle within 15-20 mins get her up and play for a short while before feeding again and then go for a slightly shorter A time so that she doesn't get OT.

A WU from a nap at 30 mins can indicate an OT baby going down for the nap. These WUs are usually easier to resettle, particularly if you are able to get to her before she really wakens.

Then for the rest of the day, for yourself a break - go for a walk, have a coffee with friends or drive in the car, try not to worry how much she is cat napping. Then the next day is a new start and we'll be here for you.

If you are keeping a note of her sleeping times, you can post them here in he same format you did your routine above, and we may be able to help a little more.

You're doing brilliantly!! ((Hugs))
~ Naomi ~




Offline laurab0228

  • New & Learning The Ropes
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 37
  • Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Re: Want to start EASY but have questions
« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2014, 09:02:17 am »
Yes that is what I would do. She would sleep 45 minutes then I would try to ssh-pat her the rest of the day. For every nap. Yeah I am going to try to extend her a time a bit and lay her down a bit later. There are also some other techniques I'm going totry. The only reason I was trying to be fairly strict with the routine was because the book said I was going to have to be fairly strict for the first couple of days.

The evening went better than the day. I bathed her around 7:15 and then fed her until about 8:00. I her until 8:30 and then laid her down asleep.  She woke at 8:50 or so, so I fed her a snack to calm her and my husband took her while I went to bed out of exhaustion.  He laid her down at 10:30 to which she woke at 11:00 so I fed her again to which she ate about 30 minutes and then went right to sleep after eating.  So I laid her down right away and she slept until 2:40 and now I'm feeding her again.  We'll see how she goes down again.

Offline Jbla17

  • New, But Posting Steadily!
  • **
  • Showing Appreciation 3
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 74
  • Location: Australia
Re: Want to start EASY but have questions
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2014, 11:16:53 am »
Try to get some rest tonight sweetie  :) Tomorrow is a new day....

Lavender oil on your temples and a drop or two on your pillow will help you to relax a little more  :) I don't want to sound like a big hippie but it works for me if I'm feeling a bit on edge.

Some young bubs don't settle for a longer stretch of sleep until later in the night. A friend of mine used to tell me how she was camped out on the couch feeding on and off from 6/7 until 11pm every night for a while.

Your LO is 10 weeks is that right? I don't know if you are familiar with the Wonder Weeks but if your bub was born on or close to her due date there is a wonder week at this point. I don't want to bombard you with too much info but knowing about wonder weeks has really helped me understand my DDs development. Wonder Weeks tracks 10 major mental leaps in the first 22 ( I think) months of life. Bubs can become fussy, clingy, cranky and cry more, sleep less etc.... After the leap their little world has changed and they start to understand more and be more aware. It helps me understand any out of the ordinary behaviour and when to prepare for it. It may sound like a bunch of nonsense but honestly my DD has acted differently throughout each of these leaps at exactly the time it was meant to.

Don't worry too much about APOP at the moment it's something you can work on when you are getting more rest. Just try to deal with one thing at a time. It is so overwhelming if you just look at every thing you need to "fix".

Sending some sleepy vibes your way x


Offline laurab0228

  • New & Learning The Ropes
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 37
  • Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Re: Want to start EASY but have questions
« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2014, 01:34:23 am »
Okay, update on my day so far, I have been writing down every detail (all times are approximate of course)

6:45 wake up, she actually woke up at 6:30, but I managed for her to soothe herself with her soother for 15 minutes.
6:45-6:55 E
A- 6:55-7:40 (put her in her bouncy chair had was happy and playing. She started fussing a bit and then I picked her up and sat with her a bit while I nibbled on my breakfast with her sitting on my knee)
7:40 started wind down
7:50 laid in bassinet drowsy and put my one hand on her chest and other on her thighs.  I listened to ipod just to give me something to focus on
8:10 very slowly took my hands off her. She instantly jerked awake and started crying. 
8:10 picked her up and spent about 5-10 minutes calming her. I then laid down with her and we snoozed
9:30 wake up
9:30-9:45 E
9:45-10:45 A- put her in her chair again happy and content while I showered (I always move her chair into the bathroom with me so I can watch her.)
10:45- start wind down
10:55 laid in bassinet ( I think I started wind down too late.  Might take me a bit to figure it out)
10:55-11:15 laid hands on her again but as I took hands off I placed a magic bag (heating bag I warmed up) on her chest to initiate my warmth and weight of my hands
11:15-11:30 slept okay for a bit but then woke up at 11:30
11:30-12:00 picked up and couldn't get her completely settled and by then she was hungry so I fed her.
12:00-12:15 E
12:15-A- laid her on her play mat and seemed happy for 20 minutes. I ate lunch.
12:35 fussed a bit for 5 minutes
12:40-1:30 went out for walk in stroller where she napped a bit
1:30 got home where she woke up as soon as the stroller stopped. Seemed content so I put her in her swing for a change of pace
2:00 started fussing quite a bit and I gave up and fed her a bit to calm her
2:00-2:15 E
2:15 light A- cuddles on couch
2:25 starting to look sleepy so I laid down with her again because we were both utterly exhausted by this point so I just needed a rest and cuddles.
3:10 woke up
3:10-3:40 SCREAMED. I put her in the baby carrier to give my arms a rest and keep her close.
3:40 finally calmed and slept in carrier.
4:20 started preparing supper with her in the carrier.
5:00 awoke
5:00-5:20 E
5:20-5:40 seemed content
5:40 started to scream again but fell asleep again at 6:00
6:00-6:30 S- fell asleep in my husband's arms.
6:30 woke up crying again
6:30 bath, seemed to calm her a bit.  Fussed a little bit in the tub.
6:50-7:10 E
Was somewhat fussy for about 20 minutes and my husband is holding her right now and she's awake.  I will probably try to cluster feed her again at 8:30-9:00 and then bed.

So we started out on routine but really went off the rails mid afternoon.

I think my problem is I have a perpetually over tired little one. I just don't know how to get her to nap longer in order to avoid it. I also don't know how to really calm her when she's over tired.  I was finally just letting her snooze on and off as you can see because I figured she was so tired I might as well let her try to get a little shut eye, but I don't know if that is the right approach. I can't even seem to get her to sleep longer than 45 minutes even if she's with me. Any suggestions? At this point I just want to see if I can get her to sleep longer than 45 minutes no matter what I do just to observe her temperment. then I can try to correct later maybe.  I might try wake to sleep if I can get her down properly during her wind down which I think is a big part of my problem. I will try again tomorrow and see how it goes.

I have noticed that she is waking at  about 5:00 in the morning every morning for the last week or so even if she only ate about 2 hours previously, when before she would usually sleep until 6:00-7:00. I will try wake to sleep at about 4:00.

I will give an update tomorrow to let you know how the night went, but in the mean time I am going to try to get some sleep tonight. 

In the meantime, please send any suggestions you may have. I have had a trying day and I'm still tired from the last two days.  :'(

thanks so much for all the support! It really does help me feel better.  I just feel so bad for my daughter.  I want to help her so bad but don't know how to do it.

 ???




Offline Jbla17

  • New, But Posting Steadily!
  • **
  • Showing Appreciation 3
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 74
  • Location: Australia
Re: Want to start EASY but have questions
« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2014, 04:54:32 am »
Hey there  :)

I was actually going to ask you did you have a sling or some sort of carrier that you could pop her in. Youve tried a whole bunch of things today!

Has she always napped 40 minutes from birth? I meant to ask before...

Like I said earlier sometimes bubs naps wont develop into long ones til they are a bit older. It seems like she is just doing that one sleep cycle for you. Waketimes are really tricky as I have just been figuring my DDs out for the last week or so. She seems to have had a huge jump in A time and is now awake for 3 hours and having two naps! It took me couple of weeks to figure this out though!

5pm - 11pm is known as the ''witching'' hour for bubs, some will be affected more affected more than others hence the unsettled behaviour for your little one at that time. They grow out of it! Your DD might be a sensitive little soul and the stress of the day just catches up with her by that time. Have you done the baby personality test? I'd put the link in but I don't know how yet! Its on the EASY boards on FAQs right at the bottom...It gives you a little insight into the personality of your bub.

Hope you are doing ok today x


Offline Buttonbobs

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 124
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 6873
  • E - born 20/10/11
  • Location: Hampshire - England
Re: Want to start EASY but have questions
« Reply #24 on: May 09, 2014, 09:54:09 am »
Hugs honey. Just remember A time include the E so is actually all the time from eyes open to eyes closed. That means the first A time you went for was 1 hour and 5 mins. I do think it is worth you trying another ten minutes so go for 1 hour 15 mins A before the first nap.

She does sound a bit OT generally, but this could be caused by too short an A time leaving her with short naps all the time. We call this a UT/OT spiral.

The previous poster (pp) is right, some LOs do sleep only short cycles until they're a bit older. My DD was like this. But I do think it's worth going for a longer A time (often LOs need a big leap in A times at this age) to see if it makes a difference.
~ Naomi ~




Offline laurab0228

  • New & Learning The Ropes
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 37
  • Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Re: Want to start EASY but have questions
« Reply #25 on: May 09, 2014, 13:57:04 pm »
Thanks so much! She never really was much of a cat napper before but maybe she's changing and prefers them now. I was including her A time with her E time.  I will have to try and catch her sleepy signs earlier so I can start my wind down.

Just a few notes on the night:

8:30-9:00 cluster feed
9:30 bed
2:10-2:30 night E
Put back to bed and she awoke at 3:20. I left her in her bassinet to see if she would calm on her own (she wasn't crying just awake).
4:00 started crying calmed her and brought her into our bed to sleep
5:30 woke up
5:30-5:50 E. She really was hungry
laid back down and S until 7:45
7:45-8:00 E

I know I really shouldn't have slept with her.  I'm a bad mummy! But it did give me the rest I really needed to get to get through the day better.

She used to sleep so well at night on her own so I don't know if it's something I'm doing wrong or she is just changing. I will keep track of today and let you know how it goes.

Offline Buttonbobs

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 124
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 6873
  • E - born 20/10/11
  • Location: Hampshire - England
Re: Want to start EASY but have questions
« Reply #26 on: May 09, 2014, 16:10:53 pm »
Babies at this age change so much all the time. And like pp has said there is a wonder week round about now.

It is also prime time for change between now and 4 months of age, so don't worry about catching sleepy signs earlier and don't rush your wind down. Just take your time and settle her as you feel able.

And one last thing, you're not a bad mummy at all for sleeping with her, enjoy those lovely small baby cuddles while they last! A bit of AP at this age can be undone later with a bit of work so please don't worry. Xxx
~ Naomi ~




Offline Jbla17

  • New, But Posting Steadily!
  • **
  • Showing Appreciation 3
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 74
  • Location: Australia
Re: Want to start EASY but have questions
« Reply #27 on: May 10, 2014, 09:13:29 am »
If sleeping with her will get you both rest then do it for now  :) You are definitely not a bad mummy for doing that...

One thing at a time  ;)

Hugs to you

Offline laurab0228

  • New & Learning The Ropes
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 37
  • Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Re: Want to start EASY but have questions
« Reply #28 on: May 10, 2014, 17:10:26 pm »
So Friday was a better day for us.  Managed to get her to nap without me holding her for about 30 minutes. She then woke up and I did some light A with her. I couldn't really get het down for her later afternoon nap so it was mostly A time. I then fed her around lunch time and then some more A time and then went for a walk when she fell asleep and slept for two hours! She had a snooze in the baby carrier while I made supper and then I fed her and then she had a fussy period around 6:00-7:00 but that was always typical of her. She then went to bed at around 8:30 and had two night feeds, so not so bad. I think I may be getting the hang of this better.

Thanks for all your support! I will keep you updated if you would like.  ;D

Offline Jbla17

  • New, But Posting Steadily!
  • **
  • Showing Appreciation 3
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 74
  • Location: Australia
Re: Want to start EASY but have questions
« Reply #29 on: May 10, 2014, 23:11:08 pm »
That's fantastic!! Well done mummy!!

Sometimes the wheels fall off for a week or so but it comes back together maybe a little different than before. She will be constantly changing and it seems like a puzzle at times but it so worth it  :D

If you persevere with a routine for her she will eventually understand what to expect next and things will be calmer.

Well done! I'm glad you are feeling better..... I don't know if its Mother's Day where you are but Happy First Mother's Day to you!  :D

Offline laurab0228

  • New & Learning The Ropes
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 37
  • Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Re: Want to start EASY but have questions
« Reply #30 on: May 11, 2014, 00:58:59 am »
Thanks so much! The support was greatly appreciated! I was a bit frantic there for a day or two, but it's much better now.

Today actually she slept on her own for her first morning nap for only about 30 minutes.  Then for her nap around lunch she managed an hour and 40 minutes :D! For our afternoon nap we went out to watch daddy's ball game and she napped in her stroller for an hour a half.  Then we did have a catnap from about 4:30-5:30! Wow! It's only one day so far but we'll see if we can stick to it.  ;D

Happy mothers day to all you as well!

Offline laurab0228

  • New & Learning The Ropes
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 37
  • Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Re: Want to start EASY but have questions
« Reply #31 on: May 12, 2014, 16:48:45 pm »
So I'm still having problems with the short naps.  :-\  I'm pretty sure I'm catching her sleepy signs in time. I loosely swaddle her (she hates being swaddled, fights it and arches her back). Then I sit with her and rock her very very gently until she is drowsy, lay her in her bed and stroke her head for a bit. It usually takes about 15 minutes. She seems totally fine with this, hardly fusses at all, there are a few whimpers early on in the wind down, I think because she is getting sleepy. I leave her for a few minutes and leave the room. I then fret and worry the whole time she's asleep because I so want her to get the sleep she needs. I can't really relax. Then after 30 minutes, she's awake. She looks up at me and smiles and seems content. I think that maybe she's a habitual catnapper so I take her out of the room and do some A time until her next feed. But she's only content for about 5 minutes before there is a full blown melt down until I feed her when her next E time is due.

Then I've tried putting her back to sleep. I usually try to catch her while she's stirring before there is a full blown melt down (which doesn't take her very long). I try shh-pat for a while, but this just seems to enrage her further, no matter how long I try, she just seems to fight it the whole way. So I've tried picking her up and calming her in my arms, then laid her back down, but this has only had mild success, she usually settles for 10 minutes max and then is up, or doesn't settle at all. I tried this numerous times. Is it possible that shh-pat doesn't work for every baby? Should I have not picked her up until she was really upset and let her try to settle herself? She is only 10 weeks old. Personally after those two days last week of constant shh-patting for hours that did nothing for me, I can only handle about 15 minutes of it at a time before I go stir crazy.

Also, I can't quite figure out if she's a textbook baby, a spirited baby, or a grumpy baby. She seems to have aspects of all three. She's hitting all her milestones like a textbook and eats well. But see below to which categories she fits into

SPIRITED
EATING: Very similar to Angel baby in the eating department, but breast feeders can get impatient. If Mum's letdown is too slow, he'll bob off the breasts as if to say, "Hey, what gives?" Sometimes, you need to give a supplement with a bottle until the milk really gets flowing.

Sometimes she can be like this, sometimes not.

ACTIVITES : High energy, feisty and very active. They are ready to jump into almost any situation, and exercise little impulse control or caution when they do. They arc highly reactive and can he aggressive with peers. Because they're usually more cooperative in the morning, avoid afternoon playgroups SO they can wind down.

She is definitely high energy and feisty and active

SLEEP: As babies, they hate being swaddled, but YOU absolutely need to block out any visual stimulation. They tend to be resistant to naps or nighttime rituals, because they don't want to miss anything. If you're lucky, even though they sleep less in the morning, it will be followed by long afternoon nap, which is key to a good night's sleep for these kids.

HATES being swaddled, but doesn't tend to initially resist naps. Only when she wakes up and I try to put her back down.

MOOD: When they want something, they want it now! Opinionated, very vocal, and often stubborn, their moods are mercurial, going quickly from happy' to sad and back again. They love the action but also tend to overdo  it, which can lead to a meltdown. Tantrums are hard to stop once they get going. Transitions can be tough, too.

Definitely her! She can smile at me one second, and cry at my the very next.

HOW THEY'RE OFTEN DESCRIBED: A handful. Always into something.1 don't have the energy to keep up with her. She's fearless.

GRUMPY

EATING: They're very impatient. if breastfed, they don't like to wait for Mum's letdown; they sometimes do better if bottle fed. However, in both cases, feeds can take a long time, which tends to overtire them. They could adapt easily to solids and when they finally do, they tend to insist on the same foods over and over.

Nope, feeds take only about 10-15 minutes

ACTIVITES: They're on the low end of the activity continuum, preferring to play by themselves and to use their eyes and ears more than their bodies. If they're engaged with a toy or an activity, they hate to he interrupted and find it hard to end one thing and start another.

Definitely not her

SLEEP: Sleep doesn't come easily to these babies. They often get overtired because they're so resistant; and then they tend to fuss themselves to sleep. These children also tend to be catnappers, sleeping only in forty minute stretches, which sets oil a vicious cycle ~see pages 249-252). BWSAYP

Yes! She is definitely overtired and is a catnapper.

MOOD: As we say in Yorkshire, these babies are often "on the Fuss. Like a simmering pot that you have to watch to make sure it doesn't boil over, you have to keep an eye on their emotional signs. The slightest variation from routine can set them off : a missed nap, stimulating activity, too much company. Without routine , their lives are in turmoil, and eventually  they takeover your life.

HOW THEY'RE OFTEN DESCRIBED: What a sourpuss. He seems to prefer playing in his own. I feel like I am always waiting for the next meltdown. He always has to have his own way.

She sure has meltdowns easy!

I'm just not sure what to do at this point.  ??? I am getting increasingly frustrated and discouraged.

Have I just hit a wonder week? I don't think she's hitting a growth spurt yet. She never used to be this fussy before, even when she was overtired and not on a more strict routing. Also, she was always such a good night sleeper, usually going to bed around 8:00-9:00, sleeping for 6-8 hours a night, having one night feed, and then waking up from 6:00-7:00. Now she's up two times a night (last night was 11:30 and 3:00) and awakes at 5:00-5:30 every morning. She seems to be rooting for a feed, to which I think she must be hungry, but then I go to put her back down after I feed her and she might sleep for 20-30 minutes, or she might fuss as soon as I put her down.

I'm just not sure how to keep her on routine? I also think she might sleep better during the night if I can get her to sleep better during the day, but I just can't seem to do it. She doesn't seem to even want to sleep in her swing, only in the car or in the stroller.  Our routine looks more like this:

E A S A E, and repeat. I just wish I could get some more Y time. 
 
As of right now I am WAY off routine, taking more of a follow-babies-lead approach. I try to get out once a day because otherwise I get cabin fever. We have a dog so I take her for walks everyday which I think helps my mood at least.

I'm confused! :-\ ??? 

Offline Jbla17

  • New, But Posting Steadily!
  • **
  • Showing Appreciation 3
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 74
  • Location: Australia
Re: Want to start EASY but have questions
« Reply #32 on: May 13, 2014, 05:16:47 am »
Hi Laura,

Ha! I know that feeling of hanging by the door willing them to go to sleep or stay asleep! Its terrible! I was doing this a fair bit and I have just in the last month or two relaxed about it. My mum jsut told me to chill out a bit and I finally took it on board  :) First time mum, you just want to make sure everything is correct!! Honestly it will never be perfect, I know none of my friends bubs have perfect naps day in day out....Angel Baby or not  ;)

To give yourself a break, just go wit it for now and organise your routine around her short naps. I know you don't have much time to yourself to regroup and that is probably the hardest thing. Don't tire yourself and DD out with shh/pat, maybe just try to extend one nap a day and the others just enjoy her if she is happy to be awake.

Right now I'm trying to figure out my DD again, major routine change!!

You probably have a spirited/ grumpy bub, that questionare just gives you a little insight to the kind of bub you have but its not the be all end all  :)

Please don't be discouraged! It is all up and down all the time, trust me!! No-one tells you this when your pregnant though  ;) I think apparently you forget what all this was like and then you go for round 2!

Now, with Wonder Weeks I would highly recommend the book and if not definitely the app...think it cost like $1.99. Worth it just to prep you to expect things to go a little haywire and then it seems easier to handle. Your DD would be nearly 11 weeks now. If she was born on her due date she is due for another WW around 11 1/2 to 12 1/2 weeks. This is a relatively short one... they get longer and more exasperating. But, you will be a pro by then!!

Do what you feel is best for DD  :) You are doing great!