We need some help! Loooong NWs.

[cuckoochick]

Ok so G has never been a brilliant sleeper and is very LSN and has always had high A times. Her sleep dramatically improved when we dropped to 1 nap v early at around 7.5mos as she began STTN or just having 1NF/NW.

However we've had a lot of illness/teething recently and now things are a total mess and I suspect routine related as she's been pretty much doing the same routine for the last 3mos although we've now pushed the first A by half an hour as her nap was shortening (initially we were having to push her a little for the 1 nap but now I'm clueless!)

WU is 7-7:30ish (we wake her- she will happily sleep on probably because of the NW)
A time 5.5hrs
Nap 12:30/1-2:30/3 she consistently sleeps 2hrs
BT 7:30

NWs- we often get a NW at 10:30/11 but this hasn't happened as much recently and she usually settles fairly easily.
However we're now having long NWs of 1.5-2hrs anytime from 3am onwards (last night was 3:15, previous night was 4am, night before 4:30am).

Sometimes during the NWs she's screaming as though it's pain but mainly she is playing- singing, rolling around, standing up, playing the cot xylophone etc. Nothing works to get her back to sleep.

She is not an independent sleeper- with all the reflux we put off and off and then everytime we've had the opportunity to do it as I'm at work, she's ended up ill. She's rocked to sleep for naps but settles really easily and will resettle herself during naps and sometimes during the night. At BT and during the night she is nursed or rocked to sleep so for sure I know that is an issue and we need to work on it.

So any ideas? Please help I'm at the end of my tether with working and am shattered. I'm thinking that really by now we should be dropping that NF but not sure whether to just wait until she turns 1 and drop the BT BF for a cup of milk. She wants to nurse and she definitely wants me in the MOTN as if DH goes in she screams the place down.

Thanks x

[Haribo2012]

Hugs hun not sure I have any suggestions that will help but didn't want to read and run. The NW sound UT but that seems a bit unlikely at her age with the routine you have...could it be developmental, Started cruising furniture yet?
Will she settle if you lay on a mat next to cot? x

[LovelyLilyandJack]

((((Hugs)))) We had 2hr nws just like that right up til jack was one.  He's also very lsn... I'm not exactly sure what did it cos a couple of things happened at once here, but we've only had one long nw in the last 2 months.  For us, I'm pretty sure it was a big drop in the amount of day sleep which did it for us. But we also got a bit more tough on WIWO, and improved consistency etc. I think that helped,  and then when he had a couple of good night's sleep he stopped napping so long in the day and that seems to have kept him on s good routine.  Since he was one, he's only slept between 45 minutes and 1hr 25 a day.  I don't cap but if he ever made it past 1hr 30, I would now cos his nights are so much better!

I know she's very young, but I'd try capping her nap to 1.5hrs and see if that helps?

ETA: Posted with haribo but I found those long nws got more frequent when J was working on something, so it could be a bit of both.  Or you could try riding it out a bit longer before making any routine changes?

[Sarah - Enfys' Mum]

We get the same long NW too.  I've always suspected it was under tiredness as she naps really well but it's definitely worse when she's working on something. I'm hoping that when we drop the last night feed it will stop. My plan is to shorten the length of her nf and then try to drop it over the half term holiday in two weeks time.  Whether she will cooperate....  We'll see

[<Catherine>]

I think I'd cap that nap too Hun, at least for a few days to trial. Ben isn't as LSN as Georgia, but even he generally only has about 1hr40. I know she *shouldnt* be UT with that routine, but we know her history so I reckon she could well be!

Hugs love x

[cuckoochick]

Thanks ladies. I'm just exhausted and lost as to where to start as working FT I can't really start ST but could possibly do it over half-term providing she doesn't end up ill. I'm just a bit worried about cutting her NF out as her milk intake can be really variable (she has formula in the daytime now) although she has been better recently.

Well today I was so tired from being up for 2hrs in the night and then I'm up at 6am when I'm at work while she's still sleeping the little monkey!!! so I struggled to get up and ended up sleeping in until 7:50 when I rushed I to wake her. As I've got friends coming tonight I didn't want a late BT so put her to bed after 5hrs 15mins and she's only slept 35mins for her nap. No going back down. So not sure what tonight will bring and I'm solo as DH is off for a boy's weekend. Mind you she did randomly have a 30min nap last week and then had a really good night. Capping to 1.5hrs hasn't really helped but I could do it more consistently to see if it will help and certainly worth a try!

As for developmental she's been cruising for a while but is now today walking with a push along walker and is practising loads of different speech sounds. 


Do you think the Lack of Independent sleep is a big factor as she can resettle herself when she pleases?
Thanks so much ladies.

Posted with Catherine- yep I told MIL and she said she's fine to cap it although I know she appreciates a nap herself!

[cuckoochick]

Just updating so yesterday after 30min nap she was obviously v tired by BT although completely happy and no tears/fussing. She was a bit unsettled and cried out a couple of times in the early part of the night but resettled herself.

Woke at 12:30 and I just fed her as home alone back to sleep, woke screaming at 1am and I gave her paracetamol but took an hour to go back down. Clearly discomfort last night. She ended up going off with my lying on the floor patting and rubbing her bum through the bars. She was tired and wanting to sleep so I do think the other nights are potentially UT/developmental. Will try cutting the nap to 1.5hrs for a week and see how that helps x

[Haribo2012]

Bless you sounds tiring! Hope things improve....we laid on floor next to my DS cot last night so your not alone and he's 23 months!
I find ibuprofen better for teeth!?x

[<Catherine>]

Yep, ibuprofen is more effective here too.

Hugs Hun. X

[cuckoochick]

So things are still no better here despite cutting the nap to 1.5hrs. Last week she had a 40min nap and we had a great night with just one quick waking.

There's loads of developmental stuff going on with her. Tonight and last Tuesday she is resisting BT after a 1.5hr nap and it's almost 8:45 and she's happily playing in her cot and no AP is working. I've been trying to get her down for almost 1.5hrs. The long NWs are bad enough (2hrs last night) and I just can't be doing with this at BT too.

So I need a plan. I want to start STing next week, 'cos that's got to help right? But I'm also terrified because she's just playing, standing up, rolling around for hrs if I'm in the room, crying if I leave but then playing again. No idea what to do here regarding her routine either. lots of people are starting with the CC comments and while I've never even thought about it for a second, it has crossed my mind lately.

So her routine has been

WU 7:15
Nap 12:45/1-2:30
BT 7:30 but lately it's getting nearer to 8pm as she just won't fall asleep and tonight it's 8:45 and she's still up

NWs as my first post. Long and all too frequent.

Any help/advice appreciated

[Sarah - Enfys' Mum]

Oye, that sounds rough. If she's just messing about, there's not a whole lot you can do.  I'm sorry, I don't know what to suggest, because she needs a nap longer than 40 minutes, surely

[cuckoochick]

Yeah it's just so frustrating and I agree she needs a nap longer than 40mins. She short napped the other day 1hr and we had a much better night but I'm reluctant to think that cutting the nap any further than 1.5hrs at 11mos is a good idea or sustainable. She finally went off just before 9pm for DH who had come back from work. She was happy playing when I came down and when he went in started crying as she knew he was trying to get her to sleep.

I just feel at a loss as to what to do but am exhausted with working and the disturbed nights

[cuckoochick]

So it's 6:40am and she is wide awake chatting in her bed. Not even a 10hr night. She had a brief waking at 1am. We had a similar night to this last week where she fought BT, didn't go down until 9pm and then STTN but was up at 6:30am for the day as happy as Larry.

Argh!!!

[Haribo2012]

Hugs hun it's rough isn't it! Really does sound a bit developmental. I feel your pain 5am WU here for last week yuuuukkkkk x

[babybarr]

I wonder if you should try an earlier bt with the shorter nap, I know that sounds counterproductive but I think she sounds like she can't unwind at bed?  However may be worth trying to speak to Heidi as I know she's just cut E's nap and she's younger than G   I maybe would try a 7pm bed.

[LovelyLilyandJack]

Have you tried a later nap as well? I know jack needs one really long A in the morning to build up enough tiredness over the day.  You might find that a later, capped nap means she gets more tired by bedtime?

Also, fwiw, Jack has averaged an hour's day sleep since he turned one and is sleeping so much better for it. I don't need to cap cos he doesn't nap for long anyway, but if G was on one nap at 7.5 months it is conceivable (to me, anyway) that she just needs less day sleep. J does a 13.5 hr day on average, with a 45 minute - 1hr 20 minute nap after about 7 - 7.5hrs A and then about 5- 5.5hrs to bed. He's done that since around the time he turned one

[cuckoochick]

I've been considering pushing that nap back later so thanks hun.

If she naps more than an hour she will only sleep a 10.5hr night, 11 max and the NWs so I'm reluctant to put her to bed too early as we then get an early WU which then pushes the next ones earlier and earlier.

[babybarr]

Oh my! Well let's hope pushing nap back helps.

[ZacsMumme]

Hey honey.
This is a funny age for sleep. They come out of that 8-10 mth sleep regression and for both my boys they kind of had to 're-learn' IS. Your not going to like this but I do think IS is an issue with G after reading our thread. I KNOW it's really hard, but I do think if you did some St then in a week things would be much better.

If you do want to do it I'm here to help and hold your hand. I did it with T 10 mths ago and remember it like it was yesterday

[Sarah - Enfys' Mum]

Agree with Sara . I have a feeling that once she can get herself to sleep these bt shenanigans will get better.

[cuckoochick]

Thanks ladies, I definitely want to start some STing but she has a hacking cough now. This happens every time I have the chance. I'm off work for a week now so hopefully I'll be able to start at some point next week.

She can sometimes resettle herself at night and often when going down at nap time or BT although she's propped to sleep she does look around when going into her cot and seems to like it. At times. She won't co-sleep now or I know that she'd be in with us every night as I am just on my knees.

Up for 2hrs last night but that was due to coughing. I feel bad for getting cross about it but feel at my wits end really. I'm worried it's going to be so much harder now she's so mobile.

Thank you ladies xxx

[Sarah - Enfys' Mum]

Hopefully her cough won't last too long and you can make a good go of it next week.

[ZacsMumme]

Hugs Hun, it's so so hard Nicola I understand, right down to getting cross.

Coughs are the pits too....seem to be doing the rounds come spring and autumn and there's not much we can to does a humidifier help? X

[Haribo2012]

My DS often has a cough especially since getting croup! Vicks vapor rub on the feet with socks over helps x

[cuckoochick]

Thanks ladies, she's still coughing a bit but thankfully it's picking up. She sttn on Friday 7:20 until 6am and that was after a 2hr nap but back to a 2hr NW last night but with lots of crying so we medicated. She used up her good sleep,quota for the next 4 months on Friday!! Ha!

Will see how she goes over the next few days and may make a start on Wednesday as we've had a busy weekend decorating anyway. I'm going out with a friend tomorrow for lunch    so DH can't start as he'll be run ragged with both girls as it is!

[ZacsMumme]

Hopefully that STTN was her body healing and cu from being poorly. Hugs to you both, here when/if your ready to st Hun x