Sleep and EASY support for twins and multiples

[kayra]

thanks again Lily, hope you had a good holiday! Going on holiday or 'normal' life seems a world away right now so it's good to see that there is hope for the future

I know I'm getting ahead of myself but how did you guys sleep train your twins? Did you do sh/pat? I didn't do that with DS so don't really have experience with it..and can't really imagine doing anything with twins to be honest What did you guys do?

[babybarr]

I just did a bit of back rubbing Kayra but at this point just survive the chaos!

Nicking each other's dummies is the latest things here, plus kissing each other whenever they get close enough!

Oh I should add both boys slept for 10hrs straight last night!  I think I may even have had 6hrs sleep in a row!! woohoo

[4isstillnighttime]

Whoop whoop for 10h Laura!!!!

I did shh pat, then shhh rub, then reassuring hand, then just shhhh. But didn't do anything til 4 months old and not v seriously til 7 months....

[Uglybethy]

Omg 10 hrs and simultaneously!! That is like a gift when it comes to twins ))

At this age kayra babies will sleep anywhere and through anything but I did try to differentiate day time and night time sleeping by sleep,ing them in swings during the day and the co sleeper at night. I also swaddled them. But i didnt intervene with the process other than that as they fell asleep on their own with no problems.

As time progressed and and they were still feeding three hourly but were a few weeks old I leaned towards using any of the five s's (set the scene, swaddle, side, shhh, or suck(paci) just to let them know it was time for sleep. To set the scene I would take them into my bedroom and swaddle them and tell them it was nap time. Oh and to sleep them on their sides I used to prop them back to back facing away from each other and that way they could feel each other too.

At around 3months old we transitioned from the co sleeper into a shared crib for both naps and night time sleep, but the same sleep time rules applied.... By this time they knew it was time for sleep and would often go to sleep just with setting the scene, swaddle, side position and paci but to lengthen a nap I would use shhhpat...

Hth for now..

How are you doing??

[kayra]

10 hours Laura!! that's amazing! You must feel like a new person! Love the kissing I'm looking forward to when they'll be aware of eachother, they seem completely oblivious to one another right now.
these guys sometimes settle all by themselves but often need to be held a fair bit otherwise they'll just lie there, not necessarily fussing but fidgeting around without going to sleep... DS2 will often fall asleep with his paci-especially if I put him on his front...yes I know....but DS1 was a tummy sleeper too and he has good control of his neck, and I only do it at nap time for now.
I tried sh-pat with DD2 today (after snuggling for a bit etc), seemed to work the first time, 2nd time it seemed like she just wanted me to shut up and leave her alone
They are kind of sleeping everywhere right now, sometimes in our room sometimes in the living room, bed, moses basket, sofa...we're more relaxed about talking loudly, light etc during the day.

just a bit of back rubbing for them to sleep would be lovely! so was that in the cot, so you had them on their sides?
Also love the idea of them sleeping back to back these guys squirm a lot though, worth a try.

The kids and I are going to be at my parents for the month of July, I was telling my mom that it would be great if we could figure out the sleep training by then, doing it all by myself seems daunting and impossible. You guys are all amazing braving everything alone it seems-I feel rather pathetic

I think soon we're going to try doing the 1-2 o'clock feed with just bottles, so without any BF so I don't have to get up. I know it's not ideal for my supply but it's so I can get a decent stretch of sleep.. Still pumping a dew times a day.

[babybarr]

a bit of back rubbing for them to sleep would be lovely! so was that in the cot, so you had them on their sides?

Mine tummy slept too as did ds1.  Well when I was in the unit the girls there st them for me really, replugged dummies and stroked their faces while they cried.  Then when home I did back rubbing in cot to retrain them took 20mins and pretty much it!

I slept mine next to each other in the moses basket for 3weeks then they shared a cot until about 8weeks.

[4isstillnighttime]

Kayra you are doing brilliantly. They are still vv tiny, I honestly have no ideas about ST at that age. I was tandem feeding to sleep at that age!! And although I am on my own a lot now I had someone with me for about the first month and I don't have another child.  Keep going, it's so tough but it does get so much easier and more fun. Mine wake up at 5 now and then play together in their cots until I get them up. And when they are eating I put their high chairs next to each other and they share their food!

How is everyone doing in general? I have just finished my first week of work, v exciting! Twins did well at the CM and Z has slept through 3 nights in a row!! And C has just needed one or 2 helps finding her dummy (she keeps lying on it!!). She has about 5 dummies in her cot but she throws out all the loose ones, just keeps the ones attached to her rabbit!!

[Uglybethy]

I agree kayra that you (and Laura) have done such a good job given that you have another child to care for too.

I did all resettling intervention in the crib, I never had to pick up at all until I travelled to the uk when the girls were ten months old. And I treated the five s's like a hierarchy of intervention, so I always set the scene and swaddled, the id give them ten minutes or so to fall asleep but if nothing then I'd put them on their side, then wait, then insert paci and wait and they were usually asleep by then. What would often happen is that they would sleep for 45 mins then need resettling so I would reinsert paci put them back on their sides and shush until they went back off (in times of utter desperation I would turn the swing or glider on just to extend a nap but I would turn it off as soon as they were asleep again - we call that APOP right?!).

Oh and white noise too... But in my case this was usually the pump haha!

Idont blame you for dropping the 2-3am breast feed.... That one is a killer especially if it involves a breast feed, formula top up and pump... And for two babies. No sooner have you done all that then you need to do it again. It gets to a point when you simply need a 4 hour stretch of sleep in order to function for your babies properly during the day. Having said that, and I'm not sure how it's going for you with your supply etc? I know if I had my time again I would not pump at all I would just nurse them more (because the pumping is the soul destroying bit). Sending you hugs and strength as you grapple with what's best for YOU because that is ultimately what is going to be best for your babies.

Quick update on us.... We tried another one nap day today after a good night last night and it went really well. That has been after a few nights of up every hour due to a throat infection, where I diligently tended to both babies every cry for help (while my husband slept!) whilst simultaneously wondering if me tending to their every cry was infact creating a prop that I would never be able to wean them from and I would end up having to stay with them all night every night for the rest of their lives... Only to realise (once again and in hindsight) that tending to our babies needs does not create bad sleep habits, in fact it reinforces our babies trust in us which is a prerequisite for more independent sleep. As soon as the illness subsided both babies have slept for 12 hours without the need for intervention from me at all.

Lily it sounds like your transition back to work is going well so far (although I'm sure it's equally tough too).. And look how much progress the girls have made with their night times a couple of paci replugs.... We can cope with that

[4isstillnighttime]

I know!!! Little champs!!

Sorry the girls have been poorly Beth - it feels like one thing after another sometimes! Well done on the one nap too. I asked my (v v experienced!) childminder about that and she doesn't think the girls are ready, so in a way am relieved as the way things are now (touch wood!) is giving us quite lovely days and nights!!

Kayra, I pumped about4 times ever, I hated it and never made any milk. And I couldn't see how it could be helping my supply if I didn't make any milk so I stopped. BFing and pumping is heroic and I can see why you are tired!! Lots of love and hope you had a good night.

Speaking of good nights.....any news Laura?!?

Xxx

[babybarr]

Not so good last night. Well h slept till 4 had a feed went back to sleep I heard him at 5.45am but he put himself back to sleep till 6.45 so about a 12hr night! J on the other hand was tossing and turning and up and down for 1.5hrs. I think it's cos he had something with tomato in. He's so sensitive. I thought a little bit would be ok. Clearly not!

Kayra we did every prop under the sun to begin with partly cos of the reflux but mainly for speed cos I couldn't spend ages settling them in cots with o around esp first thing in the morning with manic sorting for school run and the same after school. It just wasn't manageable. So they slept in their swings for ages but they learnt sleepy cues. I did the same routine each time.

[kayra]

With DS1 I hated pumping with a passion!! but it doesn't seem so bad this time-maybe b/c I'm breastfeeding too? with DS1 I ended up just pumping and didn't bf at all after a week or so.. Once I feel that they're getting all the breast can offer I will stop pumping, but for now I don't think they're draining the breast, DD definitely not, so in a sense I'm pumping to make sure she/they get all they can. When I feel they're doing that I will gladly stop!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the ST, I've given swaddling another try and it does seem to help, we'll see. They seem to settle nicely one cycle, mess about the next one..luckily when they mess about they don't need to be held all the time and they aren't crying but it does mean they're even dosier the next feed

Hope the girls feel better soon Beth, pft to DH's who manage to sleep through all that stuff or are useless even if they woke up (that would be my DH-though when we get to those bits with the twins he may just have to learn to function when woken up!). I agree about bad habits though, when DS1 was ill I'd stay with him while he fell asleep etc, and it never bred bad habits, once he was better it was back to the usual routine with no problems.

Lily, what work do you do? Glad to hear the transitions going well.
hope tonights better Laura, good on H for putting himself back to sleep. Are they still in the same room with you? I must admit I find sharing a room with babies very hard, they're so noisy! We didn't with DS and now with these guys we're in a state of musical beds everynight and sometimes we're not in the same room or else I just can't sleep!
xxx

[babybarr]

No way Kayra!! They went in their own room at 3weeks when they outgrew the moses basket they shared!  They went to a shared cot in the room next door.

[kayra]

ok well that makes me feel better about not having them in the same room as me a fair bit of the time
Never thought of putting them in the same moses basket, i can't imagine they'd fit. The problem for us is that they won't have their own room, once their STTN we plan for them to share with DS...that's with the assumption that they'd do that on a similar time table to DS who was about 7mths... we'll have to see I guess, but when they get bigger we won't be able to just park them anywhere

[babybarr]

My two slept facing each other on their sides in the moses basket. They'd move themselves so their noses were touching. Afterall they were pretty squished in the womb!

[Uglybethy]

Laura they are soooooooo adorable! Great picture!
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