3year old EWs tried everything?! Desperate for help!

[bongabees]

Aah,the sleep issues continue... Please tell me this doesn't last forever! After I posted last time, we had a few UT nights and days but he still needed a nap after EWs, so I cut them really short, like 15-30 mins. Now we have a really OT boy, but he will not sleep in the mornings! I just don't know what is the right thing to do and I feel like I am messing with him all the time.. Nap time is taking up so much of our day, so is BT and EWs and NWs... We are in a mess and exhausted! I will give him a catch up nap today and then BT will be late again... Aargh!

[ZacsMumme]

What did the last 2 days EAS look like?

I think you may have to just go ct and ride out the OT using EBT...

He seems to have days of OT and days of UT... Maybe that's just the way it will be til he drops the nap completely?!

Yes this is what I was saying earlier, that he is in an ut/OT loop with the changing nap/nn days.

Honestly I'd be tempted to go ct on that nap. Or first see if sebt works on a nap day helps and if so you know it's more OT than ut.

[bongabees]

Monday:
WU 6:00
Nap 1-1:30 (or less, I was resettling baby)
BT 7:30

tues:(NW 3ish)
Ew 4:55 went back to sleep 6-7am
Nap 2-2:15
BT 7:30
NWs 11:15-12:30 and 1:30ish

Today WU 6:00

[barbaraz78]

Do you think he can do 10 h nights if he has a longer nap of 45 min-1 h? I know some kids just need shorter nights until they are ready to drop the nap. It seems that these naps are too short for him making him OT. So, if he doesn't catch up with longer nights, you have not alternatives but keeping a longer nap and living with a shorter night. At least, this is what I would do (and I did). We went from 10-10.5 h nights and 1 h nap every day, to 10-10.5 h nights and 1 h nap 2-3 times a week, to 11-11.5 h nights without nap, when we finally dropped it. No way my DS could do longer nights, so he needed a longer nap until he was ready to keep a longer A time.

[bongabees]

I see it like this from my observations... Either we take it one day at a time and we have short nights and a nap of about 45 mins - 1 hour most of the time. This means a nice nap time and an easier boy during the day, but EWs and late BT for the foreseeable future, or we go for the nap dropping and have horrific nights and OT boy during the day too and HOPE it works itself out... Hmmm, I just don't like to sound of either!

[barbaraz78]

I personally think that the way to be followed is the one that makes your child happy. So, if he has a short night but he is happy, it means that he slept enough. Also, this makes time together enjoyable. If my ds is rested enough, he can play alone happily while I do chores, so I do not miss me time so much, while if he is grumpy and I have to deal with constant meltdowns even a short day becomes long for me... So, the best way to judge if a routine is good or not, according to me, is to look at the behavior of the kid, not at the clock and at the number of hours slept. Anyway, 10 h is not so short night after all - an ew can be defined early if it occurs earlier than 10 h after bt. Another important thing that tells you if your child is rested (at least with DS is like this) is looking at whether he sttn or not.

[ZacsMumme]

Yes I agree with Barbara. We held on to the nap until I felt it was affecting Zs night sleep so much he was constantly OT/UT and not in a settled routine so his behaviour was suffering. My boys both need either night sleep though, and do well on EBT - others can't do EBT (don't tack on) or can't survive the day. It's really what works for your family YK?

The other going is I so think you hit a point where you can't get into a rythem. No day is a good well rested say and your in a constant loop. This is when I do think you need to take the plunge with either a very short nap and shorter night (which I hate because I like my evenings) or go for no naps and hope EBT works.

[ZacsMumme]

I just wanted to also say there is ALWAYS a adjustment period with every nap drop or change in routine, and usually it's not too pretty

[bongabees]

Thank you ladies! I know I need to take the plunge with the nap drop at some point, I just don't know if it's the right time now after some terrible OT nights and EWs after NNDs I guess I got scared off. I think I will see how the next few days go and mull it over.

Also part of my issue and maybe his EWs is the potty training... I need to get him dry at night AND get over his fear of pooping in the loo... I honestly just feel overwhelmed by it all and like I am losing control YK? I have always been a tweaker, finding a solution to problems, but I feel like I don't know where to start with his nights...

What do you think is best to tackle first?

[barbaraz78]

I would give him a decent nap (45-60 mins) and see if he can make 10 h nights considtently and how is his behavior.
For night dryness, there is not much you can do: F is still in pull ups at 4 yo at night.

[bongabees]

Yes, thank you. I will keep taking one day at a time for now and keep observing with our sleep diary until, like you say, it affects his behaviour and gets obvious that the nap needs to go. He can do consistent 10 hr nights with a nap of 45-1hr for about 5 days in a row, before he gets UT and then it all starts again. Maybe I should give him a NND in there once a week or so and see how it goes? For now, we will probably have to work on what he does in the mornings and be more strict about resting in his bed until the groclock comes on and then playing quietly. Thank you for your support and insights! it really helps

[barbaraz78]

Maybe I should give him a NND in there once a week or so and see how it goes?

It can be an idea. For a child that is used to nap, a nnd is already quite tiring.

[Sarsheep]

I've not seen you called bongabees for a while!!! You'll guess me from my name too
Sam had naps for ages-still has them now at weekends (he's 5!)
We did it super slow-so one day a week band with ebt for a month then 2 days and so on-quite a process! We had lots of night terrors when he was OT too so avoided OT at all costs! Xx

[bongabees]

Ha ha! Sarsheep! Hi! Thanks, I think that is my conclusion now.. Go with the flow and see when he needs to nap and when he doesn't, we just roll with the OT. Yesterday we had a good NND and night, he woke at 6:30, had a rest listening to audio book for an hour on his bed, then 6:30 BT and asleep straight away. He slept til 6:30 with only one NW, very short and not lots of crying. Thanks for all the support ladies!!! I think we will get there eventually.

[bongabees]

Ok, so I have another question ladies... After a couple of weeks of naps between 1-2ish and nights about 8pm-6am (ok for us) we are now getting earlier and earlier wakings again... And a VERY OT boy. So, I think  we need to drop the nap soon, but my question is, how do I start when we have such EWs? I was waiting until a day that he has a reasonable WU time to then out him to bed 12 hours later, but he just keeps in waking earlier and earlier. This morning was before 5!  He can not handle NNDs when he wakes so early, so what should I do?