breastfeeding twins

[weaver]

You can always hand express a little milk to soften the breast a little, if you think it's too full and a bit tricky to latch.  Added bonus that flowing milk definitely encourages the LOs!

[Erin M]

The growth spurts in the early days come often -- it's often the cause of a rough night!

[kayra]

i think it's because of the nipple, my breasts are actually quite soft. at first that worried me making me think i didnt have milk but that doesnt seem the case. L seems to be able to latch on fairly well but has a relatively weak suck. I use the regular cradle hold and sometimes the football hold, essentially they can do both tho i prefer the cradle. I think i just need to be patient about them getting strong enough to suck better. M will be getting to that point before her so I'm going to need to be careful about her getting her share too.

another rough night, i didnt know they could have growth spurts already i thought that was way down the line...they do seem to merge feeds quite a bit.
M's got a weepy eye we're wiping it with cotton and sterile water, if its not over by friday when we go to the dr she'll prescribe sthg i imagine. he also snorts a lot, it had decreased when we came home from the hospital but it seems to have increased again
the hospital pump is pretty good so thats encouraging, i might even be able to convince myself to pump once during the night...

[katie80]

(((Hugs))), Kayra, you're doing great! Hope M clears up quickly.

[kayra]

M's eye seems to be getting better thanks
Should my milk be continually increasing? it doesn't seem to be... I know the 'yield' isn't the most reliable test but even when I pump 2 "full" breasts I'm only getting about 50cc's, that's what 1 of them eats....after sucking...
Last night they actually slept well but unfortunately they were totally out of synch, so by the time her 2hr feed was done (doze-wake up cycle) he was ready to get up.. I feel that we need to synch them but can't bear to wake one up, should I just bite the bullet? Is there an age/weight I should wait for before doing that? Being in synch one feed doesn't automatically mean it's going to be the next feed so we're talking a continual waking up etc...

[jessmum46]

I'd say that has to be your decision Kayra, I don't think there's any age/weight cutoff recommended, at least none I'm aware of.  I look after a lot of slightly prem twins in hospital (they are usually on the ward with parents from around 34/35 weeks - aware this is a bit different to being at home) and usually from the word go we try to sync them as best we can to maximise rest for mummy.  Yes that does usually mean waking them rather than letting them fully demand feed but that way seems to make it more manageable.  It just seems like the rules have to be a bit different for twins you know?  Your rest is every bit as important, if not more so than theirs as you need it to be making all that milk for them . Maybe you could pick a time when they are somewhat close together in the time they wake (30 mins or so) and then just take it from there?   Obviously you'd never hold out on a feed longer than necessary if they were clearly hungry either though so maybe you'll just have to follow the lead of whoever wakes first?

I have so much respect for you, you are doing GREAT!

[kayra]

so you synch them from early days?
i think one of my concerns is that they're dosey enough when they wake up hungry, how am i going to feed them if i'm waking them up iyswim? seems like it'd be relatively easier with a bottle but hard to get them to latch on.... on the other hand nights which are completely out of synch are killers. day time doesnt matter too much.

[kayra]

Question: What would stimulate my milk supply more, non-vigorous breastfeeding for roughly 30min which I'm assuming is not emptying the breast, or more vigorous pumping which comes closer to emptying the breast?

seems so unfair that a mother of newborns needs plenty of rest to produce milk and yet the very essence of newborns forbids rest Just as well they're cute

[koe2moe]

Hi Kayra

I was exclusively expressing for 5.5 months.  I think at under 2 weeks, they don't really eat that much so what you have produced is right for them right now I think.  Maybe you can relax a little.  It sounds to me like you are doing great.  Hmm I wonder if you can PM Shiv.  Take as much rest as possible now.  xx

[katie80]

seems so unfair that a mother of newborns needs plenty of rest to produce milk and yet the very essence of newborns forbids rest

Definitely! Just keep taking all the help offered to you! (((Hugs)))

Question: What would stimulate my milk supply more, non-vigorous breastfeeding for roughly 30min which I'm assuming is not emptying the breast, or more vigorous pumping which comes closer to emptying the breast?

Both have their place, but I think if you're wanting to increase your supply, you want extra stimulation and emptying the breast. I've often heard to choose a couple times a day and pump after you've fed for 10-15min to increase your supply. I guess you'd have to pump after feeding them both.

i think one of my concerns is that they're dosey enough when they wake up hungry, how am i going to feed them if i'm waking them up iyswim? seems like it'd be relatively easier with a bottle but hard to get them to latch on.... on the other hand nights which are completely out of synch are killers. day time doesnt matter too much.

I agree with Katherine that you need to decide what's best and what you can mange. If you think waking one to BF would be difficult, would that be a time that pumping and offering a bottle be a solution? Claire was a super sleepy baby and I hated waking her to feed... it was such hard work. But, in hindsight I might've been willing to pump and feed a bottle if it got the job done quicker and easier, even though pumping is a hassle.

[kayra]

thanks!
They actually woke up from their afternoon nap together so I tandem breastfed them, both of them bobbed off at nearly half an hour like clockwork. While the others supplemented I pumped and got practically nothing! So they are actually draining the breast! So that's good news. Bad news is it's not enough for them as they are still having almost a full feeds-worth afterwards, so I'm guessing each breast is producing less than an ounce... Koe, I know you said they shouldn't be eating that much but these guys are! I don't know if it's a "we need to catch up" thing or what but they are eating!
Anyway, I'll keep at it for the time being, may still increase eh?
Normally what I pump I give at the next feed so they get less formula that feed but I guess I could hold onto it and have it for the night...I'll need to think on that. The more I think about it though I don't want to wake L if M wakes first because she's actually a good sleeper, I'd be more upto getting him up to synch with her. Overall I just need to keep in perspective that they are still very small and I can't rush things, I just need to accept that it's going to be hard and tiring for the time being and do my best to work around that and be thankful for all the help I've got...

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

When they come off the breast and before the bottle do they seem satisfied? The thing is the bottle is much easier for them to drink down and they may take more than they really need before their body signals the brain that they are full.

Also, it is totally possible to have loads of milk and not get much via pumping - I had oversupply all three times but my body just does not respond to a pump well enough to get a good letdown (but if a baby cries anywhere near me watch out - doesn't even have to be my own baby!).

[*Ali*]

Not being able to pump doesn't necessarily mean the breast is empty and there is no milk there. Some ladies just don't work well with a pump. Some people can pump literally nothing, ever and still EBF their kids. A pump is not a reliable indication of supply at all so please do not think that what you pump equals what you are producing. It does not. Even if you aren't actually pumping any milk out it is still good stimulation for your breasts and will still help your supply overall.

Babies need more formula per feed than they do breast milk so the amount of formula they drink is not an indication of how much breast milk they would need.

Well done, sounds like you are doing great. 

Posted with Heidi 

[kayra]

normally when i pump i do get sthg, this was after they'd fed, like you said there's probably more in the breast but i'm guessing its not a huge amount...
after they've fed they do seem satisfied but not enough to settle properly, good point about the formula amount tho I'd forgotten about that. so if they were just having breastmilk how many oz would they 'normally' want?
ugh i would be so much easier if i just had more milk....
thanks for the encouragement :*

[jessmum46]

Hugs hun, you're doing fab is there any chance do you think the fact they're not fully settling after a breastfeed is not that they're not getting enough, but just that's how babies are sometimes?  I know a paci was discussed earlier on in the thread but I wonder if that would be worth a go to see if it's really just sucking need rather than hunger need?  Or maybe starting to reduce the (formula) top-ups?  Just thinking that if you are worried supply could be an issue, the best things to do are to feed from the breast and to pump, even if you're not getting a lot off, rather than supplementing with a lot of formula which may in the end negatively impact supply.  Not that mixed feeding is an issue at all if that's what you want to do, but if you are wanting to try to EBF then it makes sense to do everything possible to maximise supply if you see what I mean?

Again, with the caveat that hospital is a bit different to home, what we normally do with our twins on the ward is to encourage synched feeds from day 1 (maybe staggered by 30 mins or so) and generally wake to feed 3 hourly.  For mums hoping to breastfeed we encourage them to put LOs to the breast for 30 mins or so, then to pump, then to top up the feed (with EBM as much as possible, formula to make up the difference).  We tend to work out how much milk we'd expect them to need based on body weight, and in the initial stages give that full amount as a top up.  Once LOs are becoming stronger at breastfeeding, a little more awake, and gaining weight, we often try cutting back on the top-ups to half volumes, and then see what weight gain etc is like after another 2-3 days.  And then trial not giving the top-ups at all.  Could you maybe adapt something like that?