breastfeeding twins

[*Ali*]

There is some useful info on kellymom about estimating amounts. You'll see that the maximum stomach capacity of a 1wo is only 45-60ml (1.5-2oz). http://kellymom.com/bf/pumpingmoms/pumping/milkcalc/

[Shdef]

Oh Kayra, you are so determined! Breastmilk is a demand and supply thing, is it possible for you to just lie in bed with L on one side, M on the other, topless, and let them suckle as much as they want in the day? You can always doze as long as you put them a wee distance away. Forget pumping, just concentrate on feeding and synching.
I am only feeding one, but certainly have enough for two, boobs are amazing! They will catch up.

Nights are different, we did EBM at first, but a bit of formula won't harm them and you can get some rest!

[katie80]

is there any chance do you think the fact they're not fully settling after a breastfeed is not that they're not getting enough, but just that's how babies are sometimes?  I know a paci was discussed earlier on in the thread but I wonder if that would be worth a go to see if it's really just sucking need rather than hunger need? 

Was wondering the same thing when I read your last reply. This was Charlie for sure... he seemed hungry 24/7 the first few weeks, as he really liked to suck. If they're already getting a bottle, I don't think offering a paci is going to lead to any confusion, so it might be worth a try. Also, here you can visit the LC (or go to a BF group) and weigh your baby both before and after a feed to see how much milk they're taking in. I've found that very helpful in the early days with all three.

More (((hugs))), hon, you're doing so well!

[kayra]

thanks for the encouragement, you guys are great!
i should dig out the paci, like you said if they're already using a bottle whats the big deal..
last night was actually really good so that helps, I think DDs going to be an angel baby after the wee hours of the morning feed my dad settled DD who's fairly easy and i took DS2 who's relatively fussy, he was rooting but I was positive he'd had enough so I just held him firmly in the glider and he finally went off and slept nicely
this afternoon i'll see if i can try surrounding myself with pillows and have some free-suck time.
curious to see how much they're going to weigh at the drs tomorrow.
Thanks for the link Ali, I think what confuses me is if they need say 2oz of breast milk isn' that also the capacity of their stomach? So although 2oz of formula doesn't equal 2oz of breastmilk in 'quality' isn't it the same volume they're taking in one go at the end of the day? So these guys are having just under an oz from nursing and then getting close to 2oz formula, so although they're getting the equivalent of 2oz breastmilk they're volume capacity seems to be closer to 3oz, does that make sense???

[koe2moe]

I suspect our body is more intelligent than just going by volume to have a full feeling.  It senses water, nutrients, etc.  the hormones also.  Trust their little bodies as they are the most sensitive and we seem to lose these sensitivities as we grow as we don't need to rely on them when we learn about our environment.  I hope that makes sense.
Paci would be good for exercising the sucking.  All your love and patience for them help to build up the sense of safety in this foreign world.  .

[weaver]

Kayra, please bear in mind that pumping does not reflect what the babies are getting. 

Don't get hung up on measuring volume. Look at the babies and see how they're doing.

Hope the laid-back breastfeeding/lots of pillows worked well for you. 

[ZacsMumme]

ITA with Anne, I couldn't pump much at all when Z was tiny but I had tons of milk x

[katie80]

How are you doing, Kayra? Thinking about you and your two little loves.

[4isstillnighttime]

Hi kayra!!

I BF my twins. C would never take a bottle but Z had formula at night for a couple of weeks until she refused it, then they were both exclusively BF. I've said some of this to you on the twins thread but I'll say it again so the wise BF people can check I'm right!

Tandem feeding worked brilliantly for us and we still do it now. I spent days on end sitting on the sofa with my feeding pillow and just let them feed, doze, feed. My DH was there so I watched TV, ate and sometimes dozed off myself (he would watch the babies as they can fall off the cushion!!). I never pumped as I just couldn't get milk out that way, I would just let mine comfort suck instead. My boobs were soft and I worried about that too but it didn't seem to matter! Growth spurts were horrific but I just gritted my teeth and kept going, and all of a sudden things got easy and they have been ever since! I had a good side and a bad side, and just fed my better feeder from the bad side and the worse feeder from the good side until they got better at it. Then they would each have one boob a day, then I would swap each feed.

There are a few things I would say though. Firstly, I used to get really stressed by being touched all the time. So in the evening at 7 I would hand them over to DH and mum or someone who would carry them in a sling while I had a bath and a meal! That saved my bacon. Secondly, it was a long time before they would go even 3 hours between feeds. Thirdly, it is possible to BF twins but that doesn't mean it's the right thing for your family if it is too stressful.

I have to go now but will watch this thread and see how it's going.
Please ask any questions you want, or PM me if you would prefer. And good luck!!

[*Ali*]

Lilyrose it sounds like your the expert so if it worked for you it must be right

[kayra]

thanks for checking in!
friday we had our check at the drs so any kind of routine we had went right out the window which created a bad night too but we're sorting ourselves out now. they've gained weight nicely so all is fine in that aspect.
i havent been able to just have them on me for freesucking, the timing just didnt work with ds's school hours etc.
they continue to bob off just under half an hour sometimes earlier and its pretty much impossible to get them to latch on again but they do take a fair bit of the bottle. but if they do just comfortsuck for longer i let them. i pump twice a day to make sure they're getting as much breastmilk as possible.
they're pretty much in sync most of the time which is good!
LiliyRose thanks for your input, interesting-and wonderful- that they ended up being exclusively BF!
I must confess I don't think I'm ever going to get to the point of exclusively BFing, and I've come to terms with that. You might think it's a bit early for me to say that and I'm by no means stopping bfinf or pumping, it's just the way things are looking-in my opinion. As they get bigger and start a bit of A time I'm going to need to start sleep training them and the way I see it is that if I'm unsure about whether they've sucked enough i'm going to struggle sleep training them and I just can't cope with that stress amidst DS1 and everything else. Sleep deprivation really effects my mood, I need them to settle and sleep at night and I know that the relatively good nights we're having (2+hrs of sleep) is due to the formula top-up......
Like I said I'm not stopping by any means, just taking the pressure off so to speak and possibly choosing the less than ideal scenario for the sake of my sanity and joy...
DS2 has used the dummy a couple of times, it's quite funny he holds is infront of it (it seems) so it doesn't fall out

[4isstillnighttime]

Your sanity is way more important than how they are fed. I can think of lots of dreadful ways to feed them - seawater, vodka, human blood - and 2 good ways which is BF and FF. You are doing brilliantly and you have to do what works for you as a family!

[Shdef]

LilyRose, you are amazing!

Kayra, you don't have to EBF, you are supermum anyway!

I do find bf is relaxing time, so I just indulge it.Put a nice TV show on my laptop, be comfy and just let him suckle. Beats dishes anytime, lol.

[kayra]

haha  LilyRose, thanks 
I don't find the breastfeeding itself stressful-though I find 2 it is more complicated, doing them at the same time isn't as emotionally satisfying as snuggling up with 1- it's more having the question mark in my head of 'have they had enough? Whats next?' etc.
Having said that today they have rebelled at sleeping in their beds despite having had enough to eat lets hope its not a sign of whats to come tonight....

[4isstillnighttime]

Gah, wrote a long post and lost it! No time to write loads now but my points were:

1.  I know what you mean about worrying about what's next.  For me my DH and mum were there for the first few weeks so could change nappies, bring me snacks, etc, so I could just snuggle up and feed.  It was almost like still being pregnant, they were held constantly by me or DH (except at bedtime) for weeks, and then they napped in bouncy chairs in the living room or in the pram so we were always together.  Not sure how this would work with an older child though!

2.  WRT ST I didn't do any until they were 4 months old, and by then I knew they were getting loads of milk because they were growing well. So I never worried about them being hungry!  They were 6lb at birth, followed the 9th centile until I started solids then jumped up to the 50th.  Remember those centiles are for FF singletons though so they won't be that relevant for your 2 at the moment.

3.  Any breast milk is good. Even if you stop now you have done an amazing thing!  What really made me keep going is firstly that I found bottles, sterilising, etc v anxiety-inducing so was much more relaxed feeding.  Secondly tandem feeding was easy for us whereas tandem bottle feeding was v difficult and I knew that I would be on my own a lot with the babies so wanted to BF if possible (my DH works shifts).  Thirdly they were good feeders (Z had a rocky start but became awesome) and I was vvvv lucky never to have any mastitis, etc.  Fourthly (!) I found it was a brilliant way for all 3 of us to have a cuddle - when they were tiny and couldn't hold their heads I didn't feel confident to hold both at once in my arms and if I was just holding one I was desperate for the other one! Fifthly (getting silly now!) my DH is a great believer in BF and really encouraged me when things got tough.  We had a "one day at a time" policy which really helped.  Finally, I had a BFIng email counsellor from TAMBA who was AMAZING and really, really helped me keep going.

I had never heard of BW, EASY, or anything like that until a few weeks ago.  I knew other methods were not for me so I did attachment parenting almost by default as I didn't know any other way.  This meant I had very low expectations of sleep etc.  And that made it easier for me perversely as I just kept going.  I think there is an enormous amount of guilt around BFing and (please don't shoot me!) I don't really think it's THAT important in the developed world.  My midwife told me that PND is the biggest health problem in my age group in my area, and it is much more prevalent with twins, so I think that is WAY more dangerous to you all than FF.  I guess what I'm trying to say is that it was easy for me but I had a LOT of support, and if it had made me stressed or unhappy I would have stopped in a heartbeat and not felt any guilt at all.  Twins is amazing but it is so, so hard, and you need all your mental health and resilience to deal with the them.  The way they are fed is a tiny part of parenting, and in a year's time will be completely unimportant. 

I hope this makes sense, I really have to go!   Sorry if I've said anything stupid!!

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