Author Topic: How to start EASY for a 5 mo OT snack-feeder?  (Read 1399 times)

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Offline MientjiB

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How to start EASY for a 5 mo OT snack-feeder?
« on: May 27, 2014, 23:35:08 pm »
I'm trying to start an EASY routine with my DS, 5mo this Friday. My problems are:
- inveterate snack feeder; I struggle to get him to last 2 hours between feeds, though he feeds for up to 20 minutes.
- I think he's in an OT cycle, as he will only nap 20 min, up to 50min absolute max. He's tired all day. NW at least every 2 hours - he's never slept longer than 3 hours, so I haven't had more than 2 consecutive hours sleep for the past 5 months.
- I'm trying to sleep train, but he has zero ability to self-sooth.

My question is, how do I get an EASY started? He should be on a 3.5-4 hour EASY. Do I try to get him out of the OT cycle first, by any means necessary (e.g. feed to sleep, sleep on me etc), or must I work on extending the time between feeds, fitting in short naps when I can?

I'm getting pretty desperate, so any advice would be appreciated!

Offline nevinsmama

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Re: How to start EASY for a 5 mo OT snack-feeder?
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2014, 18:43:53 pm »
Two things that could help. One, could you post a typical day? In terms of about what time he gets up, naps, wakes again and so on? Also, with that much waking I wonder if there is some discomfort? Any signs of reflux? What are you doing now when he wakes up at night and early from naps? What are you doing now for sleep training?

 If you don't mind to help us out with those bits of information that could help. You might take a look here as well: Sleep Training  - the early days

Maryn


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Offline MientjiB

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Re: How to start EASY for a 5 mo OT snack-feeder?
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2014, 09:14:04 am »
This is pretty much a typical day:
Wake: 6.45, plays with Daddy while I catch up on sleep
E: 8.00 10 minutes
S: 8.20
A: 8.50
E: 10.10, 10 minutes, with a few spoons of solids
 10.40  he's showing tired signs, so I try to put him down (wind down, shushing) but
 11.15 he makes the hungry cry again, and eats 5 min again
S: 11.20
A: 11.40
E: 1.15; here I lost track a bit; he may have had a nap?
E: 2.50
A: 3.00 out with Daddy, has a short nap in the car seat
E: 5.00 20 minutes
  5.25 he's showing tired signs, so I try the wind down and shush
  5.50 into the bath
  6.30 Daddy tries to get him to sleep
  6.50 hungry cry, so he feeds, and falls asleep; put him in his bassinet
9.35 wakes, try paci, he makes hungry cry, feed 5 min
This is repeated at 10.45, 12.15, 1.45, 3.50, 5.20, 6.00
Wake 7.00

Awful, I know!  :P

Some more info: we saw the health worker today; he is definitely not underweight (he's a short baby), but his weight gain has slowed, rather than continuing to track where it was. So she thinks he definitely is hungry, advises us to keep pushing the solids.

So my question: can we introduce an EASY routine, using PU/PD because he's over 5 months now, if he's genuinely hungry at night? And if he's already not getting enough food, should I try to push him to last longer between feeds?


Offline nevinsmama

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Re: How to start EASY for a 5 mo OT snack-feeder?
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2014, 02:27:00 am »
I would encourage you to read here and make your own informed decision about your LOs nutrition. Have a look at the other link for A times and see if you can push those A's to about 2.5 hours and see what you get.
Is your baby ready for solids?
Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!

Maryn


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Offline MasynSpencerElliotte

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Re: How to start EASY for a 5 mo OT snack-feeder?
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2014, 02:42:02 am »
Is he feeding at every nw? How does he go to sleep for his naps? I agree with Maryn that pushing the A times out will help & also extending the time between feeds to break the snacking habit if that is what you are aiming to do.

Not sure where you are in the world but here we have a saying "before one, food is for fun" as the bulk of a baby's nutrition needs to come from breast milk or formula until then and not solids - if weight gain is an issue there are no foods as nutrient dense as bm or formula really and solids can have a knock on effect at night if they cause tummy upset. I did start all 3 of my kids on solids by 5/5.5 months but they met all the readiness signs and were getting a very small amount just in the morning at first.

Heidi




Offline *Ali*

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Re: How to start EASY for a 5 mo OT snack-feeder?
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2014, 08:42:26 am »
Have you tried topping him up 30mins after a BF? The milk produced 30mins after a feed is higher in fat and can really help with filling them up.

If you are worried about weight gain and hunger then I wouldnt actively wean BFs at night with b pupd just yet. Maybe concentrate on getting more milk in during the day first.
Cadan Dec 2009 and Colby Aug 2011


Offline MientjiB

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Re: How to start EASY for a 5 mo OT snack-feeder?
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2014, 21:55:11 pm »
This is an update and to say THANK YOU for the answers and advice!

It's been more than 2 months since my first post, and a lot has happens, but here are the important bits:
1) EASY works!!!
2) We gradually extended time between feeds to 3 hours, and by always feeding in the same place, in a closed room with my DS facing a very boring blank wall, managed to get him eating better at each feed.
3) Using a combination of shush/pat and very gentle PU/PD, he began to learn to self-sooth. He was waking at 30 minutes every nap, so for 3 days in a row I went in to him at the 20 minute mark and patted him through to 50 minutes. After that he was regularly making over 1 hour, even 1 hour 50 minutes!!! Night sleep improved too - sleeping 3 and 4 hour chunks, with night feeds in between (I switched on the light and tickled him to make sure he didn't fall asleep on me).

Life felt liveable again!

Then we went home (flying from Auckland to South Africa) for a month, and everything went out of the window! 10 hours jet lag in a 6 mo is not pretty :-( although he was so sweet and positive through it all. But strange houses, lots of new though loving people, cots he was't used to, kind grandparents letting him sleep on them - and then the return trip, upsetting his little body clock again!

One week back, his jet lag is over (no longer staying brightly awake until 1.30 in the morning), but he's not napping past 45 minutes, and waking EVERY HOUR of the night. We're persisting with shush/pat, and already last night he put himself back to sleep twice.

The difference this time round is, while I know that this process will not be as quick and easy as the first time, since he's older and he's relearning the good habits after losing them, I am calm and positive, because I know EASY works and I know he can do it!

Offline *Ali*

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Re: How to start EASY for a 5 mo OT snack-feeder?
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2014, 10:22:07 am »
Glad you saw success before the trip.
So how old is he now and what is his current routine? Have you pushed his A time longer? Just wondering if the routine that was working for him 2 months ago needs tweaking now.
Cadan Dec 2009 and Colby Aug 2011


Offline MientjiB

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Re: How to start EASY for a 5 mo OT snack-feeder?
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2014, 03:49:15 am »
You are quite right! I realised that his A times were too short - due to exhaustion from the trip, I think, he was struggling to progress past 2 hours, but by gradually increasing 15min every 3 days, we are now at 2hrs45 minutes. His first nap is now regularly over an hour (still haven't made it past 1.5 hours though), though his second is still 45 minutes.

Sh/pat is also working; he is settling easily now, in his cot, rather than trying to insist on falling asleep on my shoulder. Though he is 7 1/2 months, he still likes a gentle shush close to his ear.

However, his night sleeping is still awful - every 2 hours is a 'good' night, and the last two days he has woken up at 5am.

This is an approximate schedule:

6am E, BF
7.30 solids
8.30 E BF (he struggles holding out longer than 3 hours, so I have to fit in another one before his nap)
8.45 S
10.15 (if we're lucky; earlier if not) A
11.30 E, BF
12.30 solids
1.00 S
1.45 A
2.30 E, BF
3.45 solids
4.30 CN (especially if the first nap was short, which pushes the whole day forward)
5.15 A, bath
5.45 or so E, BF
bed some time between 6 and 7
DF around 9pm
Then he wakes roughly every 2 hours until 3 or 4 am, when it's every hour or 45 minutes until I can't get him to settle again and the day begins!!!!!

Basically I'm trying to keep to a 3 hour BF schedule, fitting solids in between, and adapting A and S times around gradually increasing his A times, and adjusting the schedule for short naps.

I have some questions please:
1) I'm going to carry on increasing A times gradually - is improved napping the best indicator of when the length is right? He's a mostly angel baby, so noting his sleepy signs is quite difficult.
2) In those NWs, he usually wakes abruptly, and makes what I think of as his hungry cry (cough at the back of his throat). So I have been feeding him when he wakes. But can this be habit and/or manipulation, at his age? Sometimes he starts falling asleep immediately and I have to really struggle to prevent him falling asleep on the breast. Or alternatively he will drink a full 6 or 7 minutes at 4am, and then wake coughing at 5 again. Sometimes, after a day of good feeds and solids, he will settle with sh/pat at night, though he's woken with the hungry cry. I'm not sure how to interpret things. Any suggestions?
3) Even if it is hunger, has he been trained to find the sensation of slight hunger something he doesn't have to sleep through, since if he wakes I'll feed him? Then could we try a 'cold turkey' style intervention, insisting on only one night feed after the DF, using sh/pat and PU/PD until he learns? Or should I rather try a gradual approach, delaying the feed interval by 5 minutes incrementally, making him wait using sh/pat?

Thank you in advance for your help; I feel so grateful that I have a forum like this of experienced mothers to turn to!

Offline MasynSpencerElliotte

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Re: How to start EASY for a 5 mo OT snack-feeder?
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2014, 04:10:40 am »
I wonder if a bit more of a push in A time and getting rid of the catnap will help the nights? Tbh by this age only DD3 still had nf's and I really couldn't say whether she had a particular hungry cry. You could do the df and then say decide not to feed until it had been as long as a normal daytime feed spacing (so 3-4 hrs) and settle using other methods.

Heidi




Offline *Ali*

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Re: How to start EASY for a 5 mo OT snack-feeder?
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2014, 07:33:11 am »
Have you tried wake to sleep for the second nap that is normally 45 mins?

I'd also try pushing that second A time to 3hrs to see if that helps the next nap. I agree with pp that if you can get rid of the CN he may start sleeping better.

I expect the feeding hourly or less at night sometimes is just habit of expecting a feed each time he wakes. I would definitely start resettling without a feed if it has been less than about 3 hrs to start with. I'd also work on independent sleep in the day so he isn't looking for you every time he needs to sleep.

Could he be uncomfortable do you think? From digestive issues or teeth perhaps?
Cadan Dec 2009 and Colby Aug 2011