8MO next week - where to next>

[3littlemen]

LO is 8mth next Friday. We've finally got some decent nights happening, with no wu/nf, but I have a few questions, if you could point me in the right direction would be awesome. WE're bf with solids. We're crawling and trying to pull ourselves up and cruise...

Monday                                                      Tuesday                                                  Today
nw 11pm, 2.20-3.50am,                               nw 3.45-4.07am?                                    wu 5.10poo
5.10am in our bed                                        5.45 wu & bf                                           6 bf and 'get up'
6.10 still awake and bf                                  7.30 solids                                              7.30 solids
7.30 solids                                                   9.10-11.35 sleep (I woke him)                  8.40-10am sleep
9.30-11.30 sleep                                         11.40 bf                                                    11 bf
11.30 bf                                                      12.30 solids                                             12pm solids
12.30 solids                                                 2.58-4.10pm sleep (I woke him)                1.20-3pm sleep woke with poo
2.55-4.05pm sleep                                       4.10pm bf                                                 3.50pm bf
4.05 bf                                                         6.15pm dinner 
6.15 solids                                                    7.20pm bf
7.30bf                                                           df 9.45pm
 7.40 sleep
df 9.45

My questions are...
Should I have left him sleep yesterday - or did too much sleep cause my EW?
Should I have just fed him and tried to get more sleep this morning?
Should I have left my nap time for around 9.10-9.30 instead of going on a time?
Now that I have finally got some idea of his a time, does his first one need another push?
Or should I give it another day of 3h20 a times to see what happens?
We've finally kicked any apop (feeding, cosleeping) habits at night, and got rid of the nasty super long nw's so I kinda want to nip it in the bud and keep on such a good story while I can!

We haven't had night sleeps like that in yonks!!! or day ones for that matter!

[3littlemen]

yesterday finished off like this
5.15 solids
6.10bf
6.20bt (he was tired)
9pm stirred
9.45pm df
11.44pm wet through nappy/pjs
4am up and trying to move around, flailing legs
4.30am asleep
5am up again, offered half bf
5.15am asleep??
5.45 awake from then on?
5.45am the other half of bf

any ideas? what causes ew anyway - I thought it was OT but was he UT yesterday or something? DOn't get me wrong, it's still better than LONG NW's but a sleep in would be better!!

[Sarah - Enfys' Mum]

I think he might be sleeping too long in the day actually. I know it's awful when they finally start napping well but he's having near enough 3 hr most days which is plenty. "They" say shorten the first nap and push it later to help with ew. So, nice as it was, that 2 hr plus am nap is probably taking away from his nights.

[3littlemen]

So despite waking early, I don't let him catch up for that during the day right?  Don't like that idea! I'd like to head towards wu anywhere between 6.30-7 no earlier than 6am, bt 7-7.30 no earlier than 6.

I put him down on time rather than anything else (hey I can pretend he woke at 6.30 right?) Would my 'perfect day' look more like this then?

6.30 wu
9.50-10.30 (cap at 45m?) nap
2-4pm? (or whatever I get) nap
BT 7.30 or EBT 6.30 depending on nap?

He's crashed now at 9.30am, it's 10.40am so I'm off to wake him up - and check out the average sleep needs. What would you reckon, 2hr day rest? or see how we end up?

[Sarah - Enfys' Mum]

I think 2 hr naps is the very bare minimum. If he'll do a bit more and still keep his nights good then that would be better. The routine you're suggesting looks ok, but the a time in the middle might be a bit long, I think I'd try the second nap at 1:30 and yep let him sleep until you have to wake him up to get him to bed on time.

[3littlemen]

So Sarah, I limit total day sleep to a max of 2hrs right? Making my first nap of the day the shorter of the two, (is 45m longt enough?) and leaving the 2nd longer so that it gradually becomes the 1 nap for the day (months later). DO I shorten the first gradually or start tomorrow with a 45er?

[Sarah - Enfys' Mum]

No, 2hr would be the minimum for naps. I think I shortened the first nap gradually, first it was an hour, then less and less over a month or so until now it's 30 minutes. I don't know if I'm right but I've tried to keep the second nap at the same time so I make the first nap shorter as her a time gets longer. (That's what I do - whether it will work for you )

[3littlemen]

I've been thinking for a while that that is where we are eventually heading, weaning off the morning nap and getting to an arvo nap after lunch (yes, about 1.30 or so)
How do you manage the a time after that nap then? Is it shortened heaps or is that what you meant on the 7-9mth board about having a set nap say 1.30pm?

yesterday he ended up with
wu?? around 5.45 or earlier who knows
nap 9.30-10.45 (I woke him)
nap 2.35 -3.30 (in at 2 and he woke himself but grumpy)
bt ready for it by 6 but in by 6.30, asleep by 7.05
woke in the horrors at 8.30
df 9.45
stirred 12.10am
today
awake at 5.10am
8.48-9.55 nap, he woke himself, happy

I didn't get him up out of his cot until 6 (he had a pooey bum - again) and I moved the day forward. Should I have stuck with a set nap time do you think - 9.30am.. the nap kinda looks ut.
Seems a blasted shame now we finally have good naps to cut them, but as DH both agree, we'd much rather have a 5am EW than a 1.5hr long party at 2 or 3am....!

[Sarah - Enfys' Mum]

I've been thinking for a while that that is where we are eventually heading, weaning off the morning nap and getting to an arvo nap after lunch (yes, about 1.30 or so)
How do you manage the a time after that nap then?

Do you mean after the first one?  Her a time after the short nap is about 3 hours. After the long nap it's 4 hrs plus.

I think today I would have stuck with the later nap time of 9:30. You want to get him used to napping later so hopefully he'll sleep later in the morning.

It's so tricky. But at least your nights are getting better.

[3littlemen]

Oh absolutely - the nights are good now!! Hate those long nws.....

Last night we got a 12hr NIGHT WOW!!!! well, he went to sleep at 6.40pm, df 9.30, we had nw at 3ish, 4.45, 5.45 when I pulled him into our bed and cuddled (instead of feeding) and he slept til 6.40am!!! WOOHOO!!!

But I beggared it... he looked tired so I put him down at 9.45, and sure enough he was out by 9.50 but only slept for 45m.... Put him down again at 1.20pm and he was gone by 1.30pm - but now is awake and not overly impressed at 2.05pm. 

So I'm thinking that a 3h20 or a time is only when he's had a short night sleep....(10hr or less), or do you think he's just tacking that one on to his night sleep? Mmmm, any suggestions what I do now??? I'm thinking they're all UT naps today... oh boy. It's going to be a 6.30bt today by the looks of it.

[Sarah - Enfys' Mum]

I think you'd be lucky to have two good naps after a 12 hr night . But I guess he could have had more a time between the two naps and hopefully he'd have slept longer in the pm.

[3littlemen]

I didn't think I could wreck it further... but what do you know? We went out in the arvo, and he fell to it... no amount of waking could get him up (and I was yelling at DH's dogs) the boys were playing real loud... nothing.
He's crashed now at 8.15pm
What do you think that makes my first a time after a good night - 4hr then?

[Sarah - Enfys' Mum]

Goodness knows I've broken Medi numerous times .

[3littlemen]

I'm pretty good at fixing the kids toys (the fav's only!) with electrical tape, so perhaps i'll apply some to L's day as well!!

It all has me a little puzzled now -so some fresh eyes would be great. The last two nights we've had leaky nappies around 3am, which is a beggar with it being cold yk? We're still EW but the long NW hasn't surfaced for a while, until last night - but after a leaky nappy I'm not sure if the day or the nappy was to blame.
Sunday                                                                                Monday
WU 5.50am                                                                          WU 5.30??
a time 3h50                                                                          a time 3h55
Nap 9.40-10.35am (55m) woke up by himself, happy              Nap 9.25am - 9.50am (woke crying but wouldn't resettle, as didn't wind up)
a time3h25                                                                           a time 3h25
Nap 2-3.30pm (1h30)                                                           Nap 1.15pm- (just gone down)
a time 3h15
bt6.45pm
df 10
woke 3 and awake for a good while maybe til 4 or more?

I haven't even got the chance to wake him from the am nap as he has done it himself the last few days. He's grumpy in the first a time but around 3hr or so. I'm sure some of it might be SA but not teeth prob. developmental more than anything. Should his first a be shorter or leave it for the 9.30am short nap do you think?

[3littlemen]

I forgot to ask, how on earth did I get a 12hr night on Friday night? I mean, he'd had 3h of day sleep, the night before he'd slept for 10hrs... is it the perfect a time before bed or the better spacing of naps throughout the day that did it....??

[Sarah - Enfys' Mum]

I'm stumped. I'm sorry. He's just all over the place isn't he?  I really am puzzled.