5.5 month old waking upto 3 times a night

[Canadian Nat]

My  5.5 month old was waking maybe once in the night, and I managed to get her to settle with the paci.  But now she is waking 2/3 times a night. I manage to settle her with teething granules and the paci usually the first couple of times and then by the third, I tend to feed her as it has been over 6 hours since she last fed.  When she used to wake only once a night, that wasn't every night. 

Last night she woke every 3 - 3.5 hours.  Making it 3 times a night.  Here is the day she had as an example:

E - 3.50am
S - 4am

wake - 6.30am
E - 6.50am
A
S - 8.15am

wake - 8.55am
E - 9.15am
A
S - 11am

wake - 12.50pm
E - 1.15pm
A
S - 4.20pm

wake - 5.30pm
E - 5.40pm
A

E - 8pm
S - 8.30/9pm

She then woke at:
11pm
2.30am
5.15am
then I eventually fed her at 5.45am

I'm so sleep deprived.

She's started weaning a couple of spoonfuls or barely one spoonful (depending if she likes it or not) of food at two meal times a day before she had her milk.  She is breastfed apart from the bedtime bottle.  Which she is draining at 260ml regularly...

Not sure what else you need to know.   I have a toddler who just turned two years old and so sleep and naps are difficult with noise etc.

I am desperate for some advice on this new problem.  She is just regularly waking and I don't know why.  I don't seem to have confidence to be able to tell if she needs a feed in the night or to just try settling her.  I have no idea what she is waking for and it is getting me really down.

Please can anyone help?

[Layla]

Hi Nat,

Sorry your post has been missed..how are things going?

[Canadian Nat]

Hi Layla

Just seen your reply.  I had thought no one would reply so haven't checked this for a bit.  Thanks for getting in touch.

Things are still the same.  Last night was three times a night, although a couple of nights previously on the trot it has been one time a night.  I posted again separately as you'll see because I noticed she was waking at a regular sort of time, about an hour to 2 hours after the bedtime feed.   So I wondered if there was a different problem.  But I was back to three times a night last night. 

I read in a FAQ section that night wakings can be overtiredness too and I know you've probably said this to me before too but I also read that it manifests in waking about 1-2 hours after the bedtime feed, so I wonder if that is the reason as it sounds exactly like what's happening, like clockwork.  She napped terribly yesterday, really hardly at all and looked really good on it through the whole day which is weird!  Should I move her bedtime back earlier than an 8pm bedtime bottle?  Do it incrementally? 

Or could it be the weaning or teething waking her up?

I'm losing the will to live...

[anna*]

Why not try some proper medication for the teeth. Both my babies, teething granules really wasn't enough for them they needed the actual pharmaceuticals

If the first waking is soon after bedtime, I would work to rule out OT (early bedtime if necessary) and pain. If the second feeding is more than 4hrs after her bedtime bottle, honestly I would just feed her, maybe that would cancel out the 3rd waking.

[anna*]

I'm losing the will to live...

Sweetie, I don't know if this is just a turn of phrase... but if you're really struggling, head on over to your GP (and then to the Post Partum Depression board on here )

[Layla]

Firstly, so many (((hugs)))... I am a little worried about what you said and maybe it would be a good idea for you to get in touch with your GP and perhaps get a referral to see someone that can offer you support in real life too???

I did see your other post and locked it so that we can keep all the advise in one place. Again, sorry this post was missed but hopefully we can help you get your LO back on track and sleeping a little better again at night .

You know me too well Nat, and I still think her bedtime is a little too late, especially if she's starting her day at 5.30am (again). I also think her A times are a little on the low side. At almost 6 months, I think you should aim at around 2.5hrs A time (some even start to move towards 3 and lose the 3rd nap) and I believe this will help her consolidate some of those naps and move towards 3 naps. With the increase in A time... I would do an extra 10-15 mins every couple of days until you get there. Ideally you would be looking at 2x1.5hr naps and a short catnap before bedtime. With the increase in A, she will hopefully be tired enough to sleep longer than just 1 sleep cycle too!!! Is that something you think you could work on? I know when I was increasing A's, I had to take dd3 out of the house and distract her. Some do a longer windown and stretch it out that way (something simple like walking around the house, rubbing her back).

I would also be careful offering her solids before milk as milk is much more important than solids and just for fun before 1. I would do a milk feed first (offer both sides) and then offer solids an hour later and she probably doesn't need 2 meals at this age. I would stick with just breakfast (be it 1-2 teaspoons) and in about a month or so you could think about lunch and by around 9 months probably add in dinner.

I remember you mentioned a while ago she was using a dummy... when she wakes at night, do you find yourself having to replug for her to get back to sleep?

Posted with Anna 

[Sarah - Enfys' Mum]

My dd2 used to do this too - 3 hr is about the length of her sleep cycle and she'd wake because she thought she needed a breast feed to get back to sleep. So I was her prop. I managed to cut back the 10 pm feed to a very small feed and then did pat/shh to settle her without feeding. That left the 3 am feed, which I am still doing.   At 5-6 months, though, I was feeding her twice a night so tbh if she seems hungry I would just feed her, as long as it's 4 hours or so since the last feed.

[*Liz*]

I think a lot of BF do this at this age - they get hungry and start to increase the milk feeds and then get into the habit of having a BF at every night waking  - and of course it is hard to wean the feeds until you are clear about them having enough food overall.

It is a vicious cycle, and one I am not clear on what the solution is  .

My children were a similar age gap and I remember feeling totally worn out by this stage. I was struggling with irritability and exhaustion, and was never sure whether I needed to consider depression or not.

Lots of (((hugs)))

[Sarah - Enfys' Mum]

I second that. I found the 4-6 month stage incredibly difficult this time round. I was much more tired than I was during the first three months even though she was waking less.

[Canadian Nat]

Thanks for all your replies and support.  It is really nice of you all. I do feel very alone sometimes, having such a struggle with my feelings and the sleep deprivation. There's much to try and reply to, so I'll try my best.

(Just to clarify, when she wakes up 2/3 times, I'm not feeding her to get her back to sleep.  I just wondered if some of you think I am feeding her, going by your posts.)

With offering a feed if the third waking it is quite a few hours after the bedtime feed, then, yes, I'll consider feeding her.  But I only haven't done that for a while because she can go a good 9 hours without a feed overnight generally so I am loathed to go backwards if you know what I mean?

I have been to the GP re how I feel as I have a history of depression.  I have begun counselling (only allowed 8 sessions through the GP which is free - I can't afford private) to combat my anxiety issues re parenthood, and have also got some antidepressants (Sertraline) which I have to admit, I haven't started taking yet as it has been something I have tried to avoid as I'm breastfeeding.  I've got a step closer to using them though by actually getting the prescription.  But I am fighting the urge to give in to them as I have come this far without giving in...I won't do anything silly but I do struggle with low mood/anxiety/depression.  Thanks for the pointer to the post natal depression board, I'll try and find that.

Tonight, I tried to do the bedtime 15 minutes earlier.  So, I took her up at 7.30pm and was feeding at 7.45pm.  Totally down by 8.15pm although asleep really on my shoulder before that.

Mainly I do get longer activity times out of her, 2.5/2.75 hours usually but I'll try and get her to 3 hours and see if that helps.  Yes, I will try and keep on working on that as I get what you are saying about her maybe getting tired enough to sleep longer than a sleep cycle.  Should I be concerned about trying to strike the right balance and not make her OT though in A time?

With regards to the paci, I only use it if I can't get her to go back to sleep on her own in the middle of the night.  For instance, she falls asleep on the bottle at bedtime, so no need for the paci.  However, after those odd wake ups in the night, I sometimes have to use the paci but it is hard to tell  if I'm have to replug it.  If she wakes and I use the paci one time, when she next wakes, she often doesn't have the paci in her mouth so either it has fallen out and that's woken her, or it popped out ages ago and she's woken for another reason. 

I've given her Teether gel tonight as I notice on it that it says apply every 6 hours, so that seems to imply that it has a longer lasting effect than granules which they suggest can be applied every 2 hours, so see if that helps as well. 

I have tried the earlier bedtime tonight as I say too so I'm trying to get there on ruling out the OT.

I'll see how it goes tonight.

[anna*]

With offering a feed if the third waking it is quite a few hours after the bedtime feed, then, yes, I'll consider feeding her.  But I only haven't done that for a while because she can go a good 9 hours without a feed overnight generally so I am loathed to go backwards if you know what I mean?

see to me, a little baby still having one or two night feeds is normal. Progress isn't always linear, just because she did so 9 hrs doesn't mean she always can yk? If it was me I would take the path of most sleep for now and fix it later.

[Canadian Nat]

OK, noted.

Last night she woke once really and I gave her Teether gel straightaway since it was over 6 hours since I'd given it last.  But I couldn't settle her without the paci, and even then it took her a little while to settle.  But apart from that, it wasn't as bad as other nights.

Today, she did the same terrible napping at first, even though I lengthened her A time to 2.75 hours during the first two periods.  Then she was really tired after that and did a half hour nap, which she woke from and then played for 10 minutes before finding her paci and putting it back in and then falling asleep.  I was quite surprised by that.  She's not done anything like that before.  Once she fell asleep again, she went off for 1 hour 55 mins.  I woke her from the sleep as it was over 4.5 hours since her last feed.  Then she wouldn't have a cap nap later (I suppose as she had had a good long nap earlier).  So by the time bedtime came she was OT I guess.  So I expect her to wake frequently after bedtime tonight perhaps..?  IF that frequent waking is due to OT. 

I really can't seem to help her to get through naps well past the half hour mark or 20 mins or 40 mins it seems...

Anna - By the way, when you mentioned getting proper meds for the teeting, can you name any that you would recommend?

[anna*]

I'm in the UK so we use Calpol and Nurofen, which I THINK are Motrin and Tylenol in north america?

[Layla]

How are things going?

[Canadian Nat]

I have had a few nights where it has been different each time.  For instance, one night she woke 2 times before midnight, another she woke once at 3am and that was it, and then one night she woke three times within an hour and a half.  That night I gave her Calpol in the end as I thought it must be a pain that wasn't going away and she had had Teether gel not that long ago, so I thought proper painkiller might be best, as suggested to me in previous posts.  After I gave that, I didn't hear anything more from her that night(!) so I don't know what you think about all that?

Last night I feel like she might have been able to sleep through but the toddler woke screaming for some reason and woke her up...

Anna, I can't give Calpol every night though can I?!  Do we think it is teething?

She just turned 6 months a few days ago too so we're starting to think about picking up the pace with the weaning, in terms of giving her more variety.  She had Weetabix today and scoffed it all!

I am still very worried about these troublesome night wakings.  I sometimes hear her do little whimpers before she wakes crying so could that mean it is pain?  Teething?  Don't think it is wind.