Author Topic: 8 week old - restless second half of night  (Read 2837 times)

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Offline Lizzielulu

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8 week old - restless second half of night
« on: June 28, 2014, 13:10:00 pm »
Hello everyone
Need some help and advice about restless second half of night and possibly responding too quickly?
Some background:
My eight week old daughter has always been pretty good at night. She was born at 37 weeks and a little over 5 lbs so she fed frequently and would go to sleep again afterwards, side from some digestive discomfort (she has had reflux but it's slowly improving).
At first she slept in bed with us as she didn't take well to the Moses basket but with persistence she now slaeps there most of the night (basket is right next to my side of bed) from five weeks.
She needs a lot of sleep and is a touchy baby. Has good daytime naps if she goes down before she is over tired, needs some settling with dummy and back rubbing. I make sure she has five full feeds during the daytime, at roughly three hour intervals.
She is breastfed and has a top up of expressed milk at bedtime as well as a breastfeed at 7/7.30 and then a 3oz bottle for dream feed by daddy around 11pm.
She sleeps peacefully once settled at bedtime and usually has DF in her sleep unless she poos and even then settled well for her dad afterwards.
Then sleeps well until somewhere between 2 and 4am. 3am seems to be the average.
This is where I may be getting in a muddle.
She starts fidgeting and making fussy noises, suggesting she is about to cry. This wakes me up and I try to wait a few minutes and sometimes put her dummy back in but the little noises continue so I get her up for a feed. However, she is often still half asleep, her eyes are shut even if she is fussing and jerking around. She always feeds but never for very long say ten to fifteen minutes at most and I then cannot get her to continue our take the other breast. It's then fairly easy to get her to settle back in basket.
However, the fussing and fidgeting resumes again less than two hours later, around 5am. On the basis of assuming she hungry (as she doesn't take a full feed at 3), I get her up and feed again. But it's the same, she doesn't take a full feed.
After this I've never been successful settling her back in basket. It's next to the window (east facing) so I presume it MIGHT be the light. I admit I don't try for very long, maybe ten minutes. I have made a "rule" that after five am I will take her into our bed between us where she will settle very quickly. I have been reluctant to try and settle for longer as my husband's alarm goes off at 7am and I then have to get up anyway to get myself and my older son ready for the school run. Baby will usually continue sleeping until 8am or sometimes longer until I get her up for a feed around 8am.
I know this doesn't sound too bad for the early days but I wonder if I'm jumping in too soon when she starts her noises at 3 and 5 ish? I don't know if I'm storing up trouble by interfering with attempts to self soothe? R if she's really hungry (in which case I'd rather pre-empt than let her fully waken and be harder to settle. I also don't want her to wake my husband with full blown crying). I would love to get down to one night waking if possible, and also phase out taking her into our bed.
My first child is now 9 years old do my memory has faded but I seem to recall he was a noisy sleeper in the early hours and we moved him into his own room at about six or seven weeks for this reason. He slept through nigh t 11pm to 6am from about 10-11 weeks, although he was formula fed at night which may also have helped.
I don't feel I can move her into own room yet as its a storey above ours and I feel she should be closer to us (or son's room was/is right next door but he won't swap!)

Any thoughts on how I am responding to her at 3 and 5 and if I should be doing it differently, with the aim of reducing NW to one? Or if I am APing her into bad habits without meaning to?. I'd be happy to start the day at six if there was just one NW. When I am working I get up before six anyway!
Sorry for length of post!
Lx

Offline Skadiver13

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Re: 8 week old - restless second half of night
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2014, 18:49:26 pm »
I know this doesn't sound too bad for the early days but I wonder if I'm jumping in too soon when she starts her noises at 3 and 5 ish? I don't know if I'm storing up trouble by interfering with attempts to self soothe? R if she's really hungry (in which case I'd rather pre-empt than let her fully waken and be harder to settle.

Hi, it seems you may have answered your own question. :) I think if she's not crying leave her to fuss. As long as you don't think it's reflux. Is her reflux under control with medication? In my opinion if she feeds at 11 she well may be hungry at 3 but you may be rushing in too early so she's not quite awake and the act of nursing is putting her back to sleep so she isn't taking a full feed. If that makes sense. So I would wait until she really tells you she needs you.

As for moving her to her own room there are definetely benefits. You wont be rushing in to her and you wont get the urge to bring her into your bed. I woudl avoid this at all costs but that's my own opinion. If you are planning on her sleeping in her own crib in her own room at some point and are not co-sleeping on purpose than I would avoid that.

I think honestly you already know you may rush in too soon to settle her and that you might be starting some bad habits but nether are undo-able. I would just sit tight and see if she really wakes and cries for a feed. But if she does and she takes a full feed then I wouldn't feed her again at 5 I would try and resettle her.  Does she go to sleep on her own?
My dreamed for Angel Baby DD (other than dreaded 40min naps) Born 4/30/16
Reflux, MSPI, Love my Spirited,textbook little munchkin DS Born 5/17/2012



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Offline Lizzielulu

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Re: 8 week old - restless second half of night
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2014, 20:44:35 pm »
Yes, she goes to sleep on her own, bedtime and nap times (in the sense I put her to bed awake and then give her a dummy, and back rub and stay in the room to resettle her as she will have a few moans or even screams and will take 10-30 mins, depending on whether she is OT or not).

It's funny you say you feel I'm answering my own question as I had the same feeling after re-reading it. I think I'm rushing in too quick and it may be selfish as I know I'll lie awake until I've "dealt with it" and fed her. Maybe her own room is the way to go, but is she too little at eight weeks? The current advice is six months!! But my first born was much happier once in his own room, I have to say.

I'm afraid I may have a bit of "poor baby syndrome" (as Tracy would say!) going on, as I had a stillbirth and several miscarriages between my two children, and maybe I just need to get a grip.

At the moment I sort of love bringing her into our bed at 5am so I can cuddle her and gaze at her. But I know it won't be so endearing once I'm back at work!

Ok, so I will try and leave her fussing and sees how it goes ....I'll report back. Many thanks for your reply.

Offline Lizzielulu

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Re: 8 week old - restless second half of night
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2014, 20:47:27 pm »
PS.her reflux seems increasingly under control. She is still quite sicky but doesn't seem to be in pain and can be laid flat. She is still on meds (gaviscon) in her bottle feeds.

Offline Lolly

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Re: 8 week old - restless second half of night
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2014, 21:11:38 pm »
My two refluxers were both very restless in the second part of the night. Both were very windy and it was a cycle of being restless, settling briefly then being restless again. They both grew out of it around 16 weeks or so.

It may be worth thinking about the reflux though, the gaviscon isn't a med as such as it doesn't do anything to control or neutralise the acid like adult gaviscon does. All it does really is thicken the feed. Are you giving it to her with her breastfeeds too? Have you got her moses basket elevated?

I would be hesitant to move her out of your room to be honest. You are right about the recs being 6 months in with parents now as a SID precaution. Also if she is a sicky baby I wouldn't want her a floor above me, even with a monitor :-\.

Laura


Offline Lizzielulu

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Re: 8 week old - restless second half of night
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2014, 08:46:34 am »
Thanks Lolly
Interesting what you say about reflux getting better by 16 weeks, here's hoping! My son was "colicky" but in hindsight I think he also had reflux as his symptoms were all the same as my daughter's. Ie. Bringing up a lot of his feeds, very windy at both ends, frequent hiccups, explosive poos (which seemed to be painful in the first six weeks), a lot of gurgling and intestinal pain accompanied by pulling up legs and crying - in first six weeks) and not liking being laid flat. All these symptoms are now better for my daughter. She is still windy and sicky but less than before.

Her basket is elevated at one end. As for the gaviscon, I'm not sure if it's made a difference or not. She does seem to vomit less at night (when she has it in the bottles of expressed milk at 7.30 and 11pm) so I experimented with adding it to small quantities of expressed milk and giving her top ups during the day. The downside was that it made me a slave to the expressing machine and I was mentally and physically exhausted. There seemed to be an improvement but I didn't do it the following day, which was much the same! Perhaps she is just starting to grow out of it.
GP mentioned another med (retanidine?) but because she is barely above the 0.4 centile, said it wasn't suitable because she would then process the milk too quickly.

So, last night, dream feed at 11.15, all ok. But then fussing started at 1.35am, argh! Definitely not hunger do was determined not to feed. Tried to ignore but agree few minutes she was wailing and eyes wide open. She had got out of her swaddle so I redid it, put her on her side, dummy in and rubbed her back. She smelt a bit stinky but she does fart a lot and I didn't want to get her more awake by checking nappy. After half hour of back rubbing she was asleep.
 
2.50am, fussing again which turned into wailing. By now it was nearly four hours since her feed so I got her up and she fed hungrily for 15 mins. Still stinky so changed her and she'd done a big poo. Felt a bit guilty add this may have been what had woken her at 1.30 - she hates being dirty. Then had a few mins on other breast and back to bed.

6.10am, awake making hungry noises and loud pooing noises. So up, changed, fed and activity time downstairs. Took her up for a nap at 7.35 when she started yawning.

So I think an improvement ... but hard to tell because of the rogue poos!

Offline Lolly

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Re: 8 week old - restless second half of night
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2014, 12:12:03 pm »
Interesting what you say about reflux getting better by 16 weeks, here's hoping! My son was "colicky" but in hindsight I think he also had reflux as his symptoms were all the same as my daughter's. Ie. Bringing up a lot of his feeds, very windy at both ends, frequent hiccups, explosive poos (which seemed to be painful in the first six weeks), a lot of gurgling and intestinal pain accompanied by pulling up legs and crying - in first six weeks) and not liking being laid flat. All these symptoms are now better for my daughter. She is still windy and sicky but less than before.

Sorry, I didn't mean the reflux was getting better by then, just the early hours fussiness cycle! My DS was 2 before we got him off meds and reflux formula (and he still suffers now at 7) and DD was 18 months. They do say colic eases around the 12 week mark though.

GP mentioned another med (retanidine?) but because she is barely above the 0.4 centile, said it wasn't suitable because she would then process the milk too quickly.

Ranitidine is the first med they try with a baby, it shouldn't have any impact on how quickly the milk passes through her as it doesn't work like that. Ranitidine reduces the amount of histamine the body produces, histamine triggers the proton pump cells in the stomach which produce acid so the drug reduces the amount of acid produced but doesn't stop it completely like a PPI drug does (omeprazole for example). Could it have been domperidone he mentioned? That is a motility drug which helps the stomach empty faster so there is less there to be refluxed up, but breast milk is digested more quickly than formula anyway so I'm not sure that would be a problem (but what do I know :P ;D).

Sounds like you had a better night anyway!

Laura


Offline Lizzielulu

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Re: 8 week old - restless second half of night
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2014, 15:06:07 pm »
Interesting ... I'm going to work on my own response to the fussing and if it doesn't improve I will go back to doctor. It was definitely Ranitidine that was mentioned.

Night was better but the 7.30 nap went very wrong. That's another story, though!
Fingers crossed and thanks for your help!
Lx

Offline Skadiver13

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Re: 8 week old - restless second half of night
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2014, 22:24:31 pm »
Yep my ds is two and we are trying for the 3rd time to wean him from his reflux meds. He is on Zegerid. He was always restless from 3-6.
My dreamed for Angel Baby DD (other than dreaded 40min naps) Born 4/30/16
Reflux, MSPI, Love my Spirited,textbook little munchkin DS Born 5/17/2012



**Siobhan**