Starting EASY

[*foxy*]

Hi

I have a couple of questions really. I hope this was the right place to post, please move if not

Firstly it's a question regarding settling DS - he's 3.5 wo. I know that fussiness is normal in the evenings but this happens during the day too. He feeds well (91st percentile) but doesn't really tend to sleep after a feed (apart from at night) so he'll be sleepy but will wake immediately if I put him down. He will then fuss for ages afterwards. He will root madly so I will offer him my breast but that really aggravates him and he'll start crying. He will suckle a bit but gets more and more agitated so I take him off and try to settle him but he's really hard to settle. He might drift off with gentle rocking but wakes soon afterwards. This afternoon I out him in the sling and he settled very quickly and slept for about 2.5 hours. Since then he's been awake. DP takes him out in the pushchair but as soon as you stop he'll wake up. Why does he root and then hate being offered the breast?

Secondly, I got into a huge mess with DD's sleep, it was awful. I would like to try to avoid that with DS if I can. Is it best to make a note of when he feeds, naps, A times etc and see if there's a pattern and then start from there? At the moment we have no routine. Im wondering if he gets OS hence the fussiness as Im sure he just wants to sleep but just can't settle.
He's usually asleep by 10pm and will wake again around 2am. Then sleeps until 4.30/5ish. Then again until 8ish. That's very loose though and a very rough idea of what he seems to be doing atm. The day is all over the place.

Any advice would be great. Thanks

[jessmum46]

Hi Kate, another mama muddling along here!

Your DS sounds very similar to mine - quick eater, doesn't do comfort sucking.  Never thought I'd be annoyed he usually won't feed to sleep LOL!  We also get rooting when he's tired, he's happy to suck his thumb (if he finds it by accident) but won't BF if not hungry.  We don't use one (personal preference) but have you tried a paci to see if he'll take that?

In terms of routine, well we don't really have one either except for trying to establish some sort of BT routine.  I think where I drove myself mad with DD was trying to fix everything all at once, and expecting to get a textbook routine early on.  To be honest we don't have much rhythm to our days yet, though nights are pretty good (sleep by 7/7.30, feeds at around midnight and 3am then WU 6am ish).  I'm not sure I'd spot any patterns yet even if I tried to, because so much is dependent on what we're doing, where we are (eg the long naps in car or sling which would have been short if at home) - although I think Tracy's advice was to do as you've suggested and keep track of things for a few days. 

The way I'm trying to think of it is to work on one thing at a time.  My "list" at the moment is establishing a BT routine (we are doing bath, feed, bed after DD is in bed), trying to get a rough 3 hourly routine for feeds, trying to learn and respond to sleep cues (variable success) and trying to get a bit of A after each E.  So much of me wants to get it "right" this time but I'm trying to remember that it's a journey, not a destination.  Not sure if that helps, but setting small goals at this age seems to be a good place to start. 

[*foxy*]

Hi Katherine

Thanks for your post. Yes we do have a dummy which he will take sometimes but he generally spits it out or he gets more worked up when we try and use it. I try and feed him at six before DD's BT but he didn't want any. He slept in his pushchair when DP took him out - for about half an hour. He then wakes up as soon as he's back home (7pm) and is awake until 9pm getting more and more worked up as the evening goes on. He's eventually fed now but cried a lot and seems to have fallen asleep. It's so stressful! And I don't know how to stop it happening.

[jessmum46]

(((Hugs))) Kate, I hate it too when DS gets really worked up.  And it's worse somehow when you know it's 'only' overtiredness but you can't seem to get them to switch off.  I don't think you can stop it though really  other than doing your best to avoid too much OT and OS (not easy with a toddler) and riding it out for the next few weeks.  My feeling is that some of it comes down to LOs personality too - although DS has very unsettled times, they generally aren't as long or hard to settle as when DD had them (she'd be up til 1am just cluster feeding and not settling).  So I think some babies are just a bit more unsettled than others.

Can you put DS in a sling in the evenings and just get on with doing whatever you need to do?

[*foxy*]

He did it again this morning - feeds, doesn't settle, then gets really worked up. A trip in the car has sent him off though. The sling worked really well in the afternoon but he hated it in the evening. DP tried. Mind you we were talking and not moving around with him in it so that probably didn't help. Might try again tonight. It'd be nice to eat at the same time or even have a cuddle on the sofa! I could do with that atm. Was quite tearful last night again. I can't stop worrying about DD but that's a separate issue.......

I really need to relax a bit more. My anxiety levels aren't healthy which isn't going to help DD

[jessmum46]

So many hugs lovely, this isn't easy . I really struggled with anxiety (related to sleep mainly) when DD was small so I know how you feel.  Trying desperately not to go back that way again this time but sometimes feelings just overtake us.  Does it help to picture 6 months, a year's time?  Thinking of the long-term and where you want to be, not where you are now? 

In terms of settling DS, something that works quite well here (borrowed somewhat from the NICU environment I work in) is making him a 'nest' from a rolled-up blanket in a U shape in the pram, putting him in so his bottom is at the bottom of the U (iykwim) and then tucking another blanket firmly over him and under the edges of the U shape.  I guess you could do this in a crib too but in the pram I've been covering it up with a snoozeshade and then rocking the pram.  The other thing he seems to like is being held very close in my arms lying on his side facing me and having his bottom patted while I walk or sway.  Not sure if either of those would help a bit?

Do you have a bouncy chair?  It was complete lifesaver for us while DD was upset in the evenings, we could sit and eat dinner together whilst one of us bounced the chair with a foot.  Yes sometimes she'd be crying but she wasn't crying alone, we were there, she was safe but it gave us some hands-free time. 

How is DD coping when he cries?  Does she get upset?

[*foxy*]

Thanks Katherine. Yes, it does help to picture beyond this newborn stage. I can't wait until DS is more interactive, I think DD will love that. I know this isn't going to last forever, it's just tough being in the thick of it atm.

I'll definitely try the towel thing. He likes feeing enclosed. I used the sling this afternoon and they worked really well. We'll see how he is this evening and maybe try it again if he's really fussy.

Yes, we have a bouncy chair. I remember doing the exact same thing with DD! Eating and bouncing her with one foot!
DD hates DS crying, really hates it. She cried too and runs away until he's stopped so that's a bit stressful too. We explain why he cries etc but nothing seems to help.

[Martini~]

Do you swaddle Kate? If you say he likes to be enclosed maybe some good blanket would help? I remember finding a miracle blanket and that helped so much, especially during naps as wasn't waking so often!

White noise? For DS is was doing miracles! I just downloaded some application of my iPhone and turn it on when I put him down.

We had dreadful afternoons and what worked was swaddle tight, put on side, give a dummy (even block the dummy with swaddle...), enclose with blanket which was rolled and put white noise very laud. Thanks to that he was having a small catnap 20-30min between 5-6pm and could go until BT.

[*foxy*]

He does wake really easily. Does it just need to be a big blanket? I haven't swaddled before. Do you out DS down in his room? I haven't made a point of taking DS off and putting him down, maybe I need to do that bc if he's anything like DD any distraction will keep him awake and DD isn't really quiet - she shouldn't have to be. DD has white noise so yes I will try that with him too. Thanks

[Martini~]

DS always napped in his room in his crib, from day one. I think it was because I thought it is the right think to do:). Frankly speaking, in early days nothing like noises or light bothered DS sleep, however his startle reflex could do it. That's why we swaddled. White noise was not a way of blocking outside noise for him
I guess, it was just a sound which just calmed him down! Like a laud shhhhh to his ear:).

Regarding swaddle, I think a large blanket or some light sheet will do for now. We transferred to miracle blanket with arms blocked from normal large blanket when he was 8-9wo as he was fighting blanket (a very strong little boy!). However if your DS is waking from naps, maybe try some special wombie, miracle blanket, SwaddleMe or other swaddled-designed solution from now on? It is also a great sleep cue in my opinion:).