Author Topic: Qns about 3-2 transition and total day sleep - in a bit of a muddle  (Read 1496 times)

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Offline cath~

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so, we're in the 3-2 transition here.

H's A time is about 2hr45 (unless after a short nap, in which case it's about 2hr15, or 1hr30-45 after two short naps)

Today is going:

WU 6.40
S 9.30
A 10.50
S 1.30 (still asleep)

say she naps til 3pm, she won't be tired for another nap until about 5.30 (+/- 15 mins) which is too late (BT is 7pm), but I'm pretty sure she won't be able to do a 4hr A time til BT either...

I can't really do EBT because I have L to look after, although I could give it a go I suppose at around 6.30pm - DYT that would be the thing to do - a 3hr30 A time til BT?

Or I could prob APOP a CN around 5pm - do you think 20 mins would be enough to get her through til BT?

Or should I be thinking of capping one of her earlier naps to preserve the CN for a bit longer, until she can to 3hr A time?

Another concern I have is that on days where she's had over 3hrs of sleep, we've had UT NWs...  but I can't see how to get her through the day on less sleep..?  Unless she has 4 short (30-45 min) naps but I don't really like that TBH (I'd prefer fewer but longer naps personally).  I am wondering if longer A times would compensate a bit for more day sleep so she'll still be tired at night.  Anyone had any experience of this?

I'm all in a muddle about how to handle this:
whether to keep more short naps so total day sleep isn't so high (she often does 4 naps, and about 2hr30 day sleep); or
let her nap longer and hope that longer A times mean that nights aren't affected...

Any thoughts or BTDT appreciated!  I'd love to be able to let her have fewer and longer naps, but I'm scared that will mean UT NWs...

ETA - she's just waking at 3pm from her nap now.  I'm unsure whether to try to APOP a v short (15 min?) CN around 5ish or try EBT at 6.30pm...  TBH with L APOPing a CN would prob be easier (if it works).
« Last Edit: July 01, 2014, 14:01:01 pm by cathn »
DD1 - 8 years old
DD2 - 5 years old

Offline Mackjack

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Re: Qns about 3-2 transition and total day sleep - in a bit of a muddle
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2014, 17:00:11 pm »
Bumping this as I'm having almost exactly the same problems!

Offline Martini~

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Re: Qns about 3-2 transition and total day sleep - in a bit of a muddle
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2014, 17:44:17 pm »
Cathn - we are in the same place so couple of my thoughts:
- more A do not compensate more sleep... We had more NW when being on two long naps (tried it for 2 days) than on 3 shorter; so DS was verrry tired at BT as long A here and still he has to much day sleep
- I am capping first nap at 40-45 (as you suggested!), than let second nap be longer (also capping at 1:20 as not time for more at 2:45-3:00 A) and than catnap; still I am on the verge as catnap has to be APOPed and we already has two days were he just refused it
- if DS had a good second nap, I am capping catnap at 15-20min; that's enough, maybe he is cranky a bit but if catnap is too long it steals night sleep or DS fights BT
- we did two days on two long naps ended at 4pm (BT is 7:30) and two days on only 2 naps (45+1:20, second one ended around 3pm) and 5min (yes, that possible!) catnap as DS refused more; he coped with afternoon A very well, being even less cranky than on longer catnap... Do not get it:) but it just was ok!

I will be interested in EBT as I never done it. I think that it will not work and DS will get up at 6am...:/ so your experience is welcome! Maybe in transition period we should go 2-3 naps day by day? Like 2 naps and EBT and than 3 naps with WU at 6? WDYT?
~Marta

Offline cath~

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Re: Qns about 3-2 transition and total day sleep - in a bit of a muddle
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2014, 08:47:21 am »
Thanks Martii for your thoughts :)  So good to have some one to talk this through with!

- more A do not compensate more sleep... We had more NW when being on two long naps (tried it for 2 days) than on 3 shorter;
that's a shame :( LOL


- I am capping first nap at 40-45 (as you suggested!), than let second nap be longer (also capping at 1:20 as not time for more at 2:45-3:00 A) and than catnap; still I am on the verge as catnap has to be APOPed and we already has two days were he just refused it
LOL maybe I should follow my own suggestion then!  I was doing this actually, but then the problem was I didn't always get a long second nap so then ended up with 4 short naps.  Not the end of the world really I suppose, but just a bit more of a faff to fit into day.
Last nap is usually/often APOP'd here anyway eg on way to get L from nursery.

What A time is your DS doing after a 40-45 min nap?

I think I need to figure out what that should be and then hopefully I can get a more consitently long second nap.

Short am nap also fits well into our day cos then we can go out to groups and things in the morning before being home for lunch.  Otherwise, H would sleep mid morning and mid afternoon, not ideal esp when L is around too and wants to go out to places.

Yesterday was crazy in the end.  After she woke at 3pm we went to the shops and she nodded off again at 4pm on the way back!  I couldn't wake her so let her have 25 mins til just before 4.30pm.  However, L was tricky at BT which affected H, L woke H a couple of times just as she was nodding off, so H ended up not going to sleep til 8pm!  Got an OT WU 45 mins later ::)

I too am wary of EBT.  I know it's worked with L at an older age, but at this age I think it would just bring WU earlier once H has had enough night sleep.  I don't think she'd tack on yet.
DD1 - 8 years old
DD2 - 5 years old

Offline Shdef

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Re: Qns about 3-2 transition and total day sleep - in a bit of a muddle
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2014, 08:55:15 am »
We had the same issues afew months ago. I even found that a 15m CN worked! For to much day slep, we just shorten the nights, for fussy periods at night, he goes on my back while I do other stuff.

Have you tried 3 hour A-time?

Offline cath~

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Re: Qns about 3-2 transition and total day sleep - in a bit of a muddle
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2014, 12:40:07 pm »
thanks Steffi

it's tricky to shorten the nights because even if H has had a lot of day sleep, she can still only manage a certain A time til BT or she gets OT.  I can't just keep her up longer (unless I gave her more day sleep with a late short CN to move BT later, I suppose that could be an option... :-\ although really a set BT works best cos then we know where we stand with the girls' BTs, L in particular likes things to be the same each night and if H was going to bed later one day that could really throw a spanner in the works!)

so you have Joey on your back in the MOTN?  Gosh I don't think I'd have the energy for that :P

I haven't tried a 3 hr A time yet, we've only just moved to 2hr45 but I will keep trying to head that way.  I think she'll be ready soon (in one or two weeks maybe).

My experience with L was that I tended not to push A times enough so I'm trying not to make the same mistake with H.
DD1 - 8 years old
DD2 - 5 years old

Offline Martini~

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Re: Qns about 3-2 transition and total day sleep - in a bit of a muddle
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2014, 13:12:48 pm »
Ehhh... I put Frank down after 3h for second nap and I got 40min nap. I cannot believe but it looks like UT as he was happy when I put him down for a nap and he is happy now when I stopped forcing him to sleep. Goshh, I tried PUPD for 30min but nothing seemed to work:(.

:( just wanted to say that I cried when doing PUPD, as I feel like a bad mother:(.
~Marta

Offline katie80

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Re: Qns about 3-2 transition and total day sleep - in a bit of a muddle
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2014, 04:26:45 am »
:( just wanted to say that I cried when doing PUPD, as I feel like a bad mother:(.
(((Hugs))), hon, you are not a bad mother! :-* PUPD is difficult, but you were there supporting him the whole time and trying to help him back to sleep.

Cath - G did a CN, long nap, CN from about 5.5-7.5mo. It worked so well for all of us, I'm hoping I can get C to do the same. If I remember correctly, his A after a CN was about 2hr and stayed that way pretty much the whole time, even when the others increased to about 3. I never had to worry about total day sleep too much though, just adjusted BT. But, Claire was still taking a nap at that age, so her BT was always later. I can see how that might be an issue for L... Claire does NOT like to go to sleep before G! :P



Offline Martini~

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Re: Qns about 3-2 transition and total day sleep - in a bit of a muddle
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2014, 08:08:39 am »
Cathn, we had a perfect 2 naps day yesterday and that will be probably a routine I would like to stick to.

So after 2:55A, he had 45min capped nap. Than another 2:50A and 2h nap till 3:30pm (also capped as I do not want him to sleep longer than 2:45 per day, and max 2h per nap). BT was 7:30 so together with bath and feeding it was 4h but he was amazing! Less OT than after 3 short naps and shorter A. I guess I have a kid who likes longer A in the evening. To go through it, he needs a decent 2h nap before so there is place only for catnap in the morning. I like this solution as it also prevents him from early wakeup (morning nap is short).

You said that you are afraid of short nap in the afternoon so you don't want to cap the morning nap. My opinion: if first nap is longer, it doesn't help to go through afternoon in our case. If second nap is short, F is just cranky in the evening even if I APOP a catnap. So... I guess that shorter nap in the morning even helps to have longer nap in the afternoon, iykwim?
~Marta

Offline cath~

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Re: Qns about 3-2 transition and total day sleep - in a bit of a muddle
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2014, 11:40:17 am »
thanks for the ideas :)

Katie -2h A time after am 45 min nap seems about right for H too atm

I don't think she could stretch to the A times F is doing yet Martii (her A times seem to decrease as the day goes on) but that's great you've found something that works so well for him :)
DD1 - 8 years old
DD2 - 5 years old

Offline Martini~

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Re: Qns about 3-2 transition and total day sleep - in a bit of a muddle
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2014, 11:48:16 am »
We have the same Cath, however on short naps. If he has 2h nap somewhere around afternoon he is a powerful little monster and can go long. That's why I had such a problem when putting him on catnap if previous nap was 1,5h+.

How are you doing right now?
~Marta