WHat causes crazy crying long nw? 8.5mo

[3littlemen]

8.5mo boy is just recovering from sickness/teeth? who knows, but routine is getting better in the day time. We've had issues preveiously with long happy NW, but the last few nights we've had long unhappy/hard to settle nw's that have me stumped. They're usually 1.5h-2h or more into sleep (the first one) and again around 2am. Admittedly I have had him in our bed when he was sick, but even then he was doing it - just not as long. He cries real hard, DH can't settle him, and he calms quickly if I pick him up, but not when I lay him back down - so last night I was settling with him down and just sh/pating talking to him. He can crawl well and is standing, he is still bf and has solids.
Yesterday looked like (bear in mind we are still getting there - but naps have increased from 30/45min respectively so that's good...

WU BF 6.50
7.30 solids
9.40-10.35nap
11 bf
12 solids
1.34-3.35 nap
bf 3.40
solids 5.30
bf 6.15
put self to sleep 6.40?
woke 8.40 finally settled 9
woke 9.30 settled by 10.15
woke 2.16 settle by 3.05?

he normally feeds to sleep at bt, but then he seems to need only 3hr of a time, last few nights he has settled himself to sleep and not fed to sleep whether that relates to not being tired at bt or not?
got a bit of SA going on too.

ANY IDEAS?

[3littlemen]

would like to add bit of background...
he has a dummy that is a non issue, he can find and replace himself
at rest time he is cuddled, then put in the cot awake and will put himself to sleep no fuss (5-20min later depending on day)
has no food allergies or isssues
still df's around 9.30pm, but hasn't had a nf for a long time prior to getting sick... had bf to try and settle but realised that wasn't effective so stopped offering.
medicated last night (and before naps) at 6.20 and 9.30pm
the cry sounds real hard - then softens - then real hard again...

[katie80]

Hi there, sorry you haven't gotten a reply. I read through this a couple days ago and forgot to come back and reply. How are things going now, any better? I was thinking it sounded like it could be teeth. Or, he may need to start self-settling more at BT. Nursing to sleep at that time can sometimes be a prop, sometimes not.

[becj86]

Things to consider:
-temperature.. Too hot would be my bet if it's temp
- getting close to SA time, you mention he has it going on in the day. If he's going to sleep with you there, he wonders why  you're not there when he rouses, hence the need to get him to self settle, yk?

[3littlemen]

thanks for your replies....

I'm crazy for sure, but I'm thinking its got to do with his day time. I'm trying to stay consistent, though the last few days I've gotten EW's as well, which leads me to think he's OT/UT loop. he managed to make it to bt with a normal-ish a time (3h30) after a real good nap, so I'm fxing that i'll get a decent wakeup tomorrow morning to work with.

It could be temp, in that he's cold - but he's in winter onesie + sleep bag, and at that point he would be just right, neither too hot or too cold. he's managing to crunch four top teeth (the first ones) through at once.

I'm struggling with his first a time though, regardless of naps (the last few days the first am nap has been 20m,25m,35m today) the second nap has been great (2h). He has had middle a times of 3h,3h15,3h30 respectively. So fx tomorrow he'll wu after 5am and i'll be able to try some set nap times of sorts. I've been medicating before all naps and bt, but hasn't made any noticeable difference.

[becj86]

Sorry, thought that shorter nap was by design.

Could be worth increasing you first A time. Thought the times were a bit short for 8.5 months but looked like you were moving to one long nap and a CN...

[3littlemen]

No not planned....Mind you it makes the day 'work' out, but after hourly waking last night, I think pain is an issue too. (BUt only at night???)
Got a 30m nap after 3hr15 a time, from a dodgy night... Is 30m OT? Then again, maybe it was 25m?? 

[becj86]

Could be either OT or pain. Pain is mainly an issue when baby is not distracted, so nap and night time is going to seem worse than in the day while they're interested in what's going on around them. Given you've got hourly waking, I'd bet pain is an issue.

[3littlemen]

I think pain kinda would fit with the weird length first nap - I'd been trying to get a shorter first a time (assuming they were OT) but wasn't making any difference, and neither is giving Panadol before rest time. It kinda makes sense as a week or more ago, 2h50 a time was giving us a 55min nap - and now we're under 30m?!

starting to wean the df, more for my sake then his - the nw's are taking a toll on me (as are his two older but still young brothers)... it's back to 9pm and I've done two nights now of one side. Don't know if that's the right thing to do or not, but at least he doesn't bite me then!

[katie80]

Have you tried ibuprofen for pain? I think Panadol is acetaminophen, right?  Lots of moms seem to think there is better pain releif for teething with ibuprofen instead.  Might be worth a shot...

[3littlemen]

Haven't got any ibuprofen, but will get some out on the mail - I do agree it works better. Well, his second nap just wouldn't end yesterday (not that I'm complaining...) but I ended up waking him at 4.30 - after 2.5hrs. I thought it might bite me, but he had his bf at bt, and went into his cot drowsy, and out to it by 7.45pm. I offered one side df at 9.20pm, and he woke at 2.30crying. Gave him panadol -and he went through until 6.35am. Very happy with that.

Perhaps that's what it'll be now, one weird nap of questionable length from 10am (25-30m) then a long afternoon... if it gives me a good night sleep for him, who cares!

[katie80]

Perhaps that's what it'll be now, one weird nap of questionable length from 10am (25-30m) then a long afternoon... if it gives me a good night sleep for him, who cares!

Not that uncommon for a LO his age starting the 2-1 transition.  It's likely why neither Bec nor I said anything about your routine in the first place. Sounds like a good night... hope you get a whole lot more!

[3littlemen]

Run of long arvo naps just ended... Knew posting it was a bad idea!! Anyway, would you reckon I stick to 7pm (usual) bedtime or drop back to 6/6.30pm - he woke after 55m at 3pm..

Ordered more pain meds today... all shiny tips poking through now... Does anyone's lo really teeth in 9 days?? This seems to be taking weeks!

[becj86]

Where did 9days come from? L's canines took 5months between them!

[3littlemen]

stoopid BWSAYP.... *though I think she may have created some * big book of  Tracey's... teeth come in three day increments...

yep, none of my kids teeth though!!