Author Topic: Your OPINIONS please! To swing or not to swing.  (Read 3527 times)

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Offline BrandyM

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Your OPINIONS please! To swing or not to swing.
« on: July 02, 2014, 19:55:25 pm »
Hello Ladies,

I desperately need your opinion on this.

My 18 week old DS has been having 30 minute naps since he was 3 months old. First, it was just some of his naps, now all naps are 30 mins.

I've tried different A times, low-key wind downs, and have had some luck extending the naps by helping him "transition" using shush/pat (more like shush/hold for us). But for the past week, DS just wakes up, sometimes with an ear-piercing wail, and nothing will get him back to sleep. 

During the wind-down routine, I used to use a swing to get him drowsy, but thanks to some really good advice here Pre-Nap Wind-Down Routine Help, I don't use the swing anymore, and now I can put him down fully awake in his crib, and after some thumb-sucking and mantra cries, he falls asleep.

However, since recently he doesn't stay asleep for longer than 30 minutes, I've been transferring him from his crib to swing when he wakes up. This way he falls back asleep and he sleeps for 1h30 to 2 hours.

Should I continue on like this? I know it's a major prop, but I am prioritizing getting some sleep in the boy, and hoping to establish a routine, where his body will become accustomed to the 3 large naps a day (even though they all finish in the swing). One day *sigh* he will no longer wake up at 30 min and he will just have 3 naps in the crib?

Or is it better to wean the swing even though his sleep will only be 30 min per nap? This way, my EASY routine will be out the window, he will probably need more than 3 naps, but I will not be using a prop. Perhaps his body will take longer naps when ready?

Today, I did PU/PD after he woke at 30 min, and it was absolutely horrible. Felt like controlled CIO anyway, he was so wound up and fell asleep from exhaustion after 40 minutes of it. Would rather not do this, since I don't know how it's supposed to extend naps.

Please let me know what you think.

Offline becj86

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Re: Your OPINIONS please! To swing or not to swing.
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2014, 21:47:29 pm »
Hugs xx

I'd rule out pain as a cause of the waking at 30min.
Whilst working on that, I'd do what it takes to get his body into the habit of sleeping in a reasonable routine. When I sleep trained DS, he was about 5 month but he was already in a very stable routine and in the habit of sleeping decent length naps at about the right times, so his body clock helped in that the only thing I was changing was HOW he was getting to sleep or the location where he slept.

FWIW, at 6 months, they go through a developmental leap which makes it much easier if they go to sleep where they will sleep for their whole nap if you don't want to be resettling when they rouse. They rouse, look around to check they're still in the safe comfy spot they fell asleep then nod back off again or they find they're somewhere else and scream! It's definitely worth putting in a bit of work now.

Having said all that, if LO is in pain from reflux/gas/intolerances, best to get that sorted first as it doesn't matter what you do, kiddo won't sleep if in pain.

PUPD is a sleep training method of last resort. Shush/pat or some variation thereof or gradual withdrawal should be tried consistently for at least 2 weeks with no progress before moving to PUPD.

Offline Mama_Mia

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Re: Your OPINIONS please! To swing or not to swing.
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2014, 22:02:27 pm »
Just my opinion but I would let him sleep in the swing. At least that way he is getting the sleep he needs. Things will and always do get better in time. No need to have everything perfect right away.

Offline katie80

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Re: Your OPINIONS please! To swing or not to swing.
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2014, 22:34:16 pm »
I did this with DS1. I didn't have the time to resettle every nap as I already had DD. So, when he woke early (anywhere from 30-40min every single time), I popped him in the swing and he'd go back to sleep. Like your DS, he went to sleep independently, just couldn't transition. When I had the chance at 5mo, I then did wake-to-sleep at around 25min and he started sleeping through for at least one long nap per day, which was enough to get us through.  If you want to and have the time, I'd highly recommend w2s. (How do I address habitual wakings? (wake-to-sleep and other methods))

But, like Bec said, you'll want to rule out pain. And even then, if the short naps are developmental, with w2s, they may not get better on their own until 5/6mo.

Was he napping well before? Could it be a routine issue at all?



Offline Tamlyn

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Re: Your OPINIONS please! To swing or not to swing.
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2014, 01:30:59 am »
I would try W2S as well; and don't get discouraged if it doesn't work right away. I had to do W2S for about 3-4 weeks, every nap, before my LO could sleep past the 30 minute mark. I also had to learn how much to wake him, how long to stay in the room with my hands on him, etc. I think this may vary a little by the child? I have to be very careful not to wake my LO accidentally during W2S, and have to stay in the room from the 25 minute mark until the 45 minute mark. It works your back, but is worth it in the long run!

Offline Mama_Mia

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Re: Your OPINIONS please! To swing or not to swing.
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2014, 02:43:33 am »
3-4 weeks? wow, that may have been a natural change in development. I dont think I have ever heard of w2s taking more than a week. Whenever I have used it it has always worked in 3-4 days.

Offline katie80

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Re: Your OPINIONS please! To swing or not to swing.
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2014, 04:00:12 am »
I believe Tracy said it could take up to two weeks for w2s to work, but I have read another post on here within the last day of it taking longer as well. :-\



Offline BrandyM

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Re: Your OPINIONS please! To swing or not to swing.
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2014, 08:31:20 am »
becj86, Mama_Mia, katie80, Tamlyn, thank you all so, so much for your input. I was tormented about which way to go that I feel as if a huge burden has been taken off my chest!  :-*

@bec and katie: Even though DS wakes up crying sometimes, I don't think it's due to pain because this always happens at the 30 min mark, and only for naps but never at BT. He often stops crying to nod off again, but will start up as if frustrated that he keeps getting jolted awake by some insane force in his brain. It's not a pain sort of cry.

@bec: I don't think I will be resorting to PUPD just yet. Having done it once, I see it really is a last resort as you've mentioned. We're in the crazy 4 month period, but like your DS, our LO's naps are consolidating and around the same time every day. I'm hoping this will be a cornerstone on which to build up the "HOW" part later on.

@Mama_Mia: Whew! I really feel less guilty about the swing now. I know they call these kinds of naps "junk sleep" because it's not as retorative as lying-flat motionless, but it beats 30 min naps, whereby DS turns into a different baby altogether (cranky and/or dazed).

@katie: I do think the routine may be an issue here. I've tried adjusting A times, with little success, but if anything, my hunch is the first A time of the day. DS wakes up at around 4/5am and goes back to sleep for an hour or so before starting his day. My guess is he is starting the day tired, as he starts his sleep cues an hour into his first A time. I wonder if  this could be it.... But I don't have any good strategy on tackling the 4/5am NW, or first A time for now.  :-\

@katie and Tamlyn: I will definitely try W2S! How did your W2S look like? I know there are two ways to do it, and I have done the shush/pat to transition type, which worked for like a charm for a week or so. Now sadly, no. I've never tried to stir him partially awake though. A bit scary, but I'm willing to try anything at this point!

I am going to continue with the swing for the purpose of keeping up a good routine and getting decent sleep in DS, but at the same time, I'll at least make sure to start his naps in the crib every time. Since his night sleep is always in the crib and DS self-sooths (unless hungry), I'm hoping the swing won't become a major sleep crutch...

Offline scruffymax

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Re: Your OPINIONS please! To swing or not to swing.
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2014, 11:59:57 am »
I personally would continue with the swing while it's working! For one thing, short naps is a developmental thing and sometimes nothing will fix that. Secondly, the swing might not work at resettling him in a week's time so you may as well use it while it works. Just my opinion xx



Offline Shdef

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Re: Your OPINIONS please! To swing or not to swing.
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2014, 12:26:01 pm »
I would continue with whatever works! He is only itty bitty :)

At this age, I stayed with him during naps and at first stir, fed and S/P. Now he has two long mammoth naps.

Offline Mama_Mia

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Re: Your OPINIONS please! To swing or not to swing.
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2014, 12:27:25 pm »
Brandy, have you tried holding through the jolts? This is where you go in around 25 minutes and lay your hands on him until he gets past the jolt that happens when he transitions from one sleep cycle into the next.

For W2S what you do is, if he always wakes after 30 minutes then you go in at 25 minutes and touch him in some way that will make him move but not wake up. Whenever I have used it I have rubbed DS's head until he moved. (sort of like a bug bothering you and then you roll over and go back to sleep).

Never feel guilty about doing whatever needs to be done in order to get some sleep into your LO. MY DS has not slept easily since he was born and there were so many nights between birth and 5 months when he would wake for hours in the MON and I would set him in his bouncy chair and watch TV at 2 am. You can always try to force LO to change and sleep differently or better but the way I see it is that by the time your successful you have stressed yourself and your LO and it usually would have got better on its own anyway if you just went with it.

Offline Shdef

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Re: Your OPINIONS please! To swing or not to swing.
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2014, 12:29:59 pm »
What Mama Mia said! Be in there BEFORE the wake up and try and extend however way he likes it most :)

It can be holding, feeding, patting, shushing, or just plain being there that helps extend!

Offline Tweakster

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Re: Your OPINIONS please! To swing or not to swing.
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2014, 15:57:08 pm »
Finn did almost all his naps until he was 5 mths old in the swing.  Eventually he got too heavy for it and it became dangerous to use.  So we moved to shush/pat at that time.  Back breaking work that I did not want to start until it was absolutely necessary.  Mamma Mia is spot on.  Just do what you need to until you have the energy and time to tackle it AND you feel like he's developmentally ready.  And someone wise on here told me what works today might not work tomorrow anyway, pretty much what scruffymax was saying up there - the swing today, tomorrow who knows?!

The tweaking never stops!

Offline katie80

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Re: Your OPINIONS please! To swing or not to swing.
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2014, 03:46:03 am »
For W2S what you do is, if he always wakes after 30 minutes then you go in at 25 minutes and touch him in some way that will make him move but not wake up. Whenever I have used it I have rubbed DS's head until he moved. (sort of like a bug bothering you and then you roll over and go back to sleep).
This is how I did w2s as well, with the addition that after I stirred him I kept my hand on him for about 25 more min, until the 50min mark. After a week of that, I just did the w2s for a week and then stopped.

I am using the swing here and there for DS2 as well, because like Wendy said I'm not able to mentally face sleep training yet and must secure help to watch my others when I do it, so it has to be at a certain time.

Never feel guilty about doing whatever needs to be done in order to get some sleep into your LO.
This!!^^^



Offline BrandyM

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Re: Your OPINIONS please! To swing or not to swing.
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2014, 08:44:33 am »
@scruffymax and All4Finn: Okay... This never crossed my mind until you mentioned it here, but it's true - the swing might not work forever! *facepalm* Then I will really be out of ideas... I should take advantage of it while it lasts, and get him on a stable routine first. Thanks!

@Steffi: DS has made such progress over the last months, I forget sometimes he's only 4 months old. It seems like feeding and shush/pat also helped with your LO's routine, but didn't become a sleep crutch? I'm hoping for the same outcome!

@Mama_Mia: Yes, sometimes holding him really helps, and he is able to transition (worked this morning for the first time in a week!) when he stirs slightly. But sometimes his eyes pop open and all is lost.
I must try W2S, the "bug bother" method!

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You can always try to force LO to change and sleep differently or better but the way I see it is that by the time your successful you have stressed yourself and your LO and it usually would have got better on its own anyway if you just went with it.

Thank you so much for this!

@Steffi: Upon observing DS, there seems to be a jolt and deep breath at 25 min, then silence for a couple of minutes, then really stirring/crying. I'm going to catch him before the first jolt and extend. Thank you!

@All4Finn: The shush/pat hurts my back too. DS hates being rolled to the side, so I have to pat/hold under his arm, and sometimes it doesn't work. It must've been pretty difficult weaning the swing and going to shush/pat. I dread the day the swing will have to go. Hopefully, DS will be ready... and me too.

@katie: Thank you so much for the tip! I just assumed that I have to sleep train from the very start and everything will unfold as I go along, but there's no good in rushing it.

Thank you ladies so much!
Every time I was using the swing, I would hear Tracy say, "You're not starting as you mean to go on, luv!" :-\ but I'm going to take it easy (pun intended) and swing for a bit before DS is more developmentally ready, and I should be as well. Much love!!  :-*