Bedtime too late? 8 mo old

[zportiss]

Up until about 1 1/2 months ago DD went down pretty easy w some shush pat some nights around 7.  While traveling for 4 days she refused BT until 7:45 every night consistently when we returned home so I stopped fighting it and moved her BT permanently to 7: 45.. About 4 days ago she went down for a nap at a friend's house and got really upset, cried hysterically, and so I picked her up and nursed her to sleep.  Ever since then she gets hysterical at BT only.  I feel like she remembers that I picked her up and at night she wants that same comfort.  The reason why I'm questioning her BT is because she starts yawning and getting crabby about one hour before BT.  Do you think her being overtired could make going down at night tougher hence the hysterics? She has a set wake time of 6:20 regardless of the fact that her hysterics at BT have been keeping her up until almost 9.  Today she slept until 7:45 though, probably due to the late nights...She was up until 8:20.  My interventions since the BT hysterics started the first 2 nighs I picked her up and rocked her to sleep (I tried to wait her out for almost am hour before picking her up), the next night I picked her up, couldn't get her to stop screaming even then, left the room for a minute, went back in and sang her a couple lullabies while rocking and then she fell to sleep on her own right away in the crib when I put  down.  Then last night I gave her hugs from inside the crib until she calmed, gave her some stuffed animals, rubbed her blanky on her cheek, and she fell asleep finally about 5 minutes after I stopped. 

I am at my wits end.  My husband keeps telling me she needs to cry it out. He says that's what everyone else does  they say it's heartbreaking for a couple nights but then the baby never cried again at bedtime.  I can't stand hearing her cry when she's gasping for air and hysterical.  He says, she can't cry forever, she'll fall asleep eventually.  He thinks that I coddle her too much.  I feel like no matter what I do I am failing at this sleep thing.  I am getting ready to do full on CIO because the months and months of sleep training keep backfiring on me, I can't seem to get her to be independent sleeper and I really feel like a failure, and like I'm making this tougher for her with the inconsistencies.  Nothing works anymore to sooth her, shush pat/pu/pd.  She started pulling up a few days ago too.  She's going to stay the day with grandma in a couple days too and I feel there's a good chance naps won't go well in a strange place and grandma will end up rocking her sleep.  At this point what else can she or I do if shush pat & pu/pd don't work? Please help...

[jessmum46]

Hugs, you sound really stressed out . It's really hard when LO won't settle well, but as you probably know none of us here believe CIO is the answer, though we can all sympathise with the frustration and feeling of helplessness Tracy Hogg firmly believed that CIO broke the bond of trust between LO and parent, and that there was always a more respectful way to teach your LO to sleep - we'd love to help you with that if we can.

Overtiredness can definitely make it harder for LO to settle at BT.  Could you post your normal routine in EAS format so we can see if there's anything obvious to tweak?

Has your LO ever been an independent sleeper in the past?  What sleep training have you tried, and when, and for how long?  How do you currently settle her?

The other thought that sprang to mind was that separation anxiety often kicks in around this age.  For us it manifested primarily in difficulty settling at BT.  Have a look at this: Separation Anxiety.

Will look forward to your reply x

[zportiss]

Thanks for your reply.  I definitely think separation anxiety is playing a role.  I noticed in the last couple of days she cries if I put her down sometimes. She has been going through this for a couple of weeks. It started with her fussing when I left the room.  I read the page on SA and her scream is definitely very different, high pitch, hysterical.  It just doesn't feel right to let her cry!!!! I have always felt CIO goes against my instincts, and feel a mother should always follow her instincts.  You have no idea how much I appreciate the support of this forum.  You ladies are always a voice of reason when I am ready to lose it!  It has been such a long challenging struggle.  DD nursed to sleep until she was 5 months.  She's a touchy baby, so I used shush pat since pu/pd wasn't recommended.  She responded very well to shush/pat initially, but we have had so many regressions, every time we travel, or she teeths, or is going through a developmental leap.  It seems like I get a week or two of decent sleep, and then we are back in another regression.  I am not exaggerating   I've never gotten her to totally be an independent sleeper.  She falls asleep on her own, but I have always stayed in the room, never having gotten to the point where I can leave.  Before this most recent regression, I had her to the point where I could give her her blanky and she'd just fall asleep.  The last 4 nights I did a combination of picking her up when she got hysterical and rocking her (she kept crying in my arms right until she fell asleep) and once I laid her down after she was calm and she fell asleep, another time I hugged her while she was in the crib, and most recently for her nap just now she got hysterical and I picked her up, she calmed, screamed when I put her down, I shushed while keeping my hand on her chest, she cried herself to sleep.  It breaks my heart when she's looking me in the eyes screaming with her little arms outstretched ugh....please tell me how to stop the screaming.  I know picking her up is only reinforcing the screaming but I can't ignore her, and I don't know how else to sooth her.  Here's our routine:

6:20 nurses (she seems to sort of sleep and doesn't fully wake until she finishes nursing around 6:45)
A6:45
8:15 solids
S9:45-10:55
E11:00 nurses
12:30 solids
S2:00-3:10
5:00 solids
7:00 BT routine, bath, nurse
7:45 asleep

BT had been later due to settling issues.

[jessmum46]

It looks like she could do with a little push in A times, those 1h10 naps are a pretty common length when LO is UT.  Overall though it doesn't look a bad routine, we had similar at that age but would have had DD asleep for 6.30/7ish.  Hard when you get SA at bedtime though.....I do remember BT taking 45 mins to an hour when we went through it.

It's difficult if your LO has never been a fully independent sleeper, but my suggestion would be go back to whatever you were doing before this hit (I presume giving her the blanky and then sitting down somewhere in her room?) and then each time the hysterical cry starts, count to ten (just to assess whether she *really* needs you - Tracy always told us to stop and listen to what LO is saying before rushing in - not in any way suggesting you should wait a certain time period before returning), return to her if so, lay her down again with her blanky and go back to your chair, wash, rinse, repeat until she settles.  We did a variation of this with DD who was an independent sleeper, the only difference being each time we lay her down again we would leave the room.

It was hard at the time but I think sticking to our usual settling routine, then returning to provide extra reassurance when needed gave DD confidence that things were still the same and we would always come back.   The screaming is horrible, but you can and will get through this phase x

[zportiss]

Thanks for your help Katherine! Just an update, DD is doing much better.  No more hysterics! I returned to during right next to her crib and shush pat if needed.  She is back to her to old self and falling asleep for the most part without any shush pat.  Hopefully at some point I can work myself out of the room!

[jessmum46]

Great news!