Routine help -4 mo, short naps and erratic feeding

[shresmummy]

Hi, my DS is nearly 16wks, making him 4mo on Friday. He was born 3 wks early, but seems to be doing things on time and feeding well. He is my third so unfortunately I've APd a lot because I've had to, to do school drop off, pick up and older two kids activities.

I did bw for my other two so I'm familiar with the age appropriate A times, etc and how many naps they need. But the question is how to actually get him to cooperate!!

I still haven't made it to 4 hr Easy.. And lately gave been having loads of nw, and short naps. Can someone please help tweak my routine? Or give me suggestions? Thanks in advance

We don't have a reliable routine, so I'll tell you how today went. I was aiming for two long naps and 1 cn, but it all fell apart . Most times I put him for a nap in the baby carrier or keep him in the capsule if he falls asleep on the school run.

Wu 6:45
E 7:30 bf
A 6:45-8:50
S 8:50-11:05 (first in the carrier while out then cont sleeping in the car on way home)

E good bf at 11:05
A 11:05-12:50 (I always struggle with thiis A time. He gets cranky very quickly. But he should be ok after a long nap right?.)
S 12:50-1:35 ( then I end up with a short napand the day goes downhill)

E 2:10
A 1:35- 3:45 (too long but had no choice - school run)
S forced him at 3:50 slept till 4:35
Woke crying, ot for sure?
E again bf at 5
A 4:35-5:45 did bath

I took him to bed at 5:45, didn't really know what else to do! I bf him at 5:45 again to put him to bed. He slept at 6:15, woke crying at 6:45, I fed him again and then he went yo his cot and has been sleeping since...it's now 10 pm.

Actually despite what I thought was a bad day, it's been his best early part of the night for the past week or so. He used to sleep well from about 7:15-11pm when he was younger.. Them a few weeks ago he started waking up at 9:30 wanting a feed. I assumed growth spurt? But past week was awful.. He was up every 45 mins to an hour!

Tonight it's been better... What do you make of that?

Thanks ladies!

[shresmummy]

Just wanted to update on our day today and to see if anyone has any suggestions... It was another day of 45 min naps with about  1.5 hr A time in between.

Wake 6:30
E 6:30 bf
S 8:30-9:15 ( in capsule during drop off).. Woke happy

E 9:30 wanted bf soon after waking.
S 10:45 - 12:30 (woke in between at 40 mins but was sitting quietly in carrier and went back to sleep)

E 12:40
S 2:30- 3:05 (in capsule during pick up)

E 3:30
S 4:25 - 5:30

E 6:30
Bedtime and top up feed 7.

Asleep 7:30, had 1 nw at 8:05, resettled without feed.
He has just woken up again at 10 pm now and I'm feeding.

Essentially we had a sort of 3 hr easy with short 4 naps and fairly long A times but it makes it so hard when he doesn't nap longer than 45 mins.. And he usually wants a feed soon after waking. Except for that last A time before bed he was happy to be awake for a while..

Any ideas how to tweak A times so we are on 3 naps? Thanks

[shresmummy]

Wanted to bump up again any eyes would be most appreciated

Again we had short naps..he refused nap 4 so I'm doing ebt.

Wake 7
E bf 7:20
S 9-9:35

E 10 bf
S 11:10-12:45

E 1 bf
S 2:45-3:25

E 4 bf
Now I'm doing bf again at 5:45 and ebt..

What kind of A times should I aim for? He seems to be having a long nap only after a short nap plus 1.5 hr A time! Admittedly all naps are still in carrier but if it's going to be a short 45 min nap I can't AP and extend..unless he himself is going to do a long one.

Thanks again

[ZacsMumme]

Hugs.
4 mths is a nutty time. Short naps are common, and often developmental. Your first days eas looks good. I found on short nap days I just offered more naps and muddles through best I could.

At this age my boys got much more alert and wouldn't nap for long out and about is there a reason you aren't doing any cot naps?

[jessmum46]

I agree with Sara, I think your A times in general look about right (1h45-2h is typical at 4 months), with a shorter A time after a short nap, but you may just be in the developmental stage where short naps happen whatever you do with A times.  What do you do when he wakes at 45 mins?  Do you take him out of the capsule or carrier or do you give him a chance to go back to sleep?

I also agree about considering doing some cot naps when you can.  Totally appreciate AP is probably much more necessary when you have two other LOs but four months is often the age when props/unhelpful sleep associations start causing issues.  It's also a time when LOs are so much more aware - from four months on DD would only sleep in her own bed in a dark room, nowhere else, unless completely and utterly exhausted. 

If it were me I think I'd stick with 2h A time first thing and try to be consistent in that.  If first nap is good, 2h A time again.  If first nap is short, 1h30-45 A time.  If all naps in the day are short you just need to muddle through as Sara said and try to squeeze in an extra nap or two if you can.  And remember tomorrow is a new day

Feeding-wise did you have any specific concerns?  I notice your thread title suggests you do....

[shresmummy]

Thanks so much for taking a look ladies

Well, with regards to the cot naps, I always try for a few naps of the day, but it's always short when I do and so to be able to make it thru the day I've had to ap the next one to get a longer nap.. And with the capsule when he wakes up I always try once again to see if he'll go back to sleep, sometimes even keep driving round the neighbourhood! But usually once he's up, he's up!

I am trying not to Ap as much as possible but it's just not happening... I keep having to...

And in terms of the feeding, with constant short naps is it more important to try and stick to the 3.5 hr/ 4 hr feeding times or A times in order to get him down for the next nap?  So usually what ends up happening is sometimes I'm feeding 2.5 hr since the last feed so I can get him down for a nap after his short nap..

Today wasn't a good day he was super fussy after 1 hr in the am?? Then I tried keeping him up till about 1 h45 mins, he cried heaps for the nap and only slept 20 mins then the day sort of went downhill.... Oh well tmro is a new day as you say

But funnily his nights have been better...that's what I don't get.

[ZacsMumme]

Have you tried w2s or httj on any cot naps? I used to sneak in 5 mins or so before the habitual wake and observe or try to keep my boys asleep or resettle by httj, reinserting the paci, she/patting or w2s (before the wake)
How do I address habitual wakings? (wake-to-sleep and other methods)

Your approaching 4 mths. There is a huge GS at 4 mths to keep an eye on that...

I guess with the silly naps I just muddled as best as I could with feeding. So I would feed during A time as close to 3-4 hrs as possible but if I had to pop my lo down for a sleep and was worried he would wake hungry I offered a top up before the nap.

[shresmummy]

Thanks Sara, I've tried the w2s a few times but usually what happens is my other son walks in and then it's all over anyway!!! I think with short naps I just have to go with it unless I can resettle in 5or 10 mins..

Just wondering with nap lengths.. 30 is ot and 40 is ut..what's a 35 min nap? He  does that sometimes too.

[ZacsMumme]

35 mins in our house was just a sleep cycle. It more often than not meant UT, or just developmental. (Or he stirred and the paci was out ) some peoples LOs do it when OT but for us it was more UT.

Maybe you could try adding 10-15 mins to that first A and see if it helps the morning nap

[jessmum46]

We had weeks of UT 37 min naps before I worked out that's what they were.....

[shresmummy]

It's school holidays now, so today I did all cot naps.. Dd and DS watched a lot of tv today!

Our routine was like this..

Wake 6:50
E 7:30 bf
S 8:40–9:30 (50 mins)

E 10 bf
S 11:10-11:45
Woke and was happy for a while

E 12:45
S 1:35-2:25 woke then I managed to resettle till 2:55

E 4:10 bf
S this is where the day went downhill.. Tried for cn at 4:40 ish he screamed his head off and just wouldn't settle

Now I'm doing ebt at 5:40.. Wonder what's in store tonight....

I just can't seem to extend that morning A time to 2 hrs.. He seems to settle well only around 1h 45/50 mins. Any later he's too jumpy and won't settle.

The feeds are still a bit annoying.. They're sometimes not even 3 hr apart anymore! But the sleep times due to short naps means I have to feed in between or the 4 hr will fall right in the middle of a nap..

Any ideas? At least it's now 50 min naps instead of 35/40 right?! Something to smile about!...

Thanks ladies

[ZacsMumme]

This is what Z did at 4-6 mths. I had to do w2s and httj combined with apop to help him through the transition a LOT, he just was a developmental short mapper, had a paci that fell out too and was a jolter.

So....I guess what I'm saying is try to push the A a bit if and when you can. That first nap could def be UT,but if extending causes shorter naps then take the 45-55 min and just offer more. I tried to keep the first A as age appropriate as I could. Eventually things did settle, and the naps extended on their own yk?

I often had to apop a 3-4 nap at this age, if it was a fail then I opted for 6pm bt too.

At ~4 mths there is a massive GS. Probably the biggest for both my boys. It can last a good week. So expect a bit of erratic feeding and sleeping.

I think your doing really well considering 4 mths is such a messy time Hun fx for a good night

[shresmummy]

Thanks for the encouragement Sara!

I wonder if that gs has hit...

Our routine today:

Wu 6:45
E bf 7:10
S 8:50-9:30

E 10 bf
S 10:50-11:45 then managed to resettle from 11:55-12:55

E 1:15 bf
S tried at 2:45 but he screamed his head off and finally had to bf for comfort for a few mins then he slept 3:30-4:45ish in ergo carrier

E 5:30 bf

Going to aim for 6:30 bt.

Why do you think he screamed so much for that 3rd nap? I thought his earlier nap was good on that at least I could resettle...I wonder if he was ot? ,

He is actually 17 weeks now so should be around 2 hrA time right?

[ZacsMumme]

Maybe after that good nap around lunch he was a bit UT for the arvo nap? yes 2 hrs A is a common A time for 4 mths.

Your day actually looks ok how was your night after the 6.30 pd

[shresmummy]

Yes perhaps... Would you still consider that a good nap
Though? I'm noticing his nights are all over the place these days! No matter how good/bad the day went.. He's having a lot of early nw.. Every 45 mins or so, initially i settle without a feed, then around 9:30/45 I have to feed.. Then some night he goes back to sleep others it's fussy for a while again till he falls into deep sleep. Ideally he should be doing longer naps but if not, is 4 short naps a reasonable thing to aim for? With around 1.5 hrA time in between? I suspect the weird nw are sleep regression/ gs related?

[ZacsMumme]

Yeah, if I'm reading right that he did a 2 hr nap with only 10 mins resettle in the Middle? For 4 mths it's a great nap

I'm noticing his nights are all over the place these days! No matter how good/bad the day went.. He's having a lot of early nw.. Every 45 mins or so, initially i settle without a feed, then around 9:30/45 I have to feed.. Then some night he goes back to sleep others it's fussy for a while again till he falls into deep sleep.

My second did this for ages. So frustrating! I think for some it's developmental. I know it's often OT but we were the same. No matter how well he slept otherwise, em had the ENW do you think he could have wind after the BT feed? - my second had terrible wind/gas and food intolerances which is why I'm asking about wind.

I'd go for a 2 hr first A. If you can get a good nap (seven with a resettle) then do another 2 hrs but if you end up its short naps you can pull the next naps forward. I found this a good routine to aim for on 'off' days full of short naps
http://www.babysleepsite.com/schedules/5-month-old-baby-schedule/

[shresmummy]

Thanks Hun that link helps.. For some reason I can never extend that am nap. Probably because school runs mess up his sleepy window.

He had his vaccines yesterday...do I wonder how his day will go. Something interesting I noticed... He had a cn yesterday that ended still 4:30 but I could only do bt by 6:30 earliest due to dd swimming. He took a bit of time settling and crude but when he did, he slept really well! No enw, I did a df at 10:30 and he slept till 2 am..

Wonder how that happened..

[ZacsMumme]

I struggled with Z till ~6 mths. I had to W2S, HTTJ or apop so many naps if I wanted a chance at a decent one Could be the shots causing the better night...but could be that he needs more A time yk?

[shresmummy]

Yes, I guess I just have to ride it out.. I just realised he's nearly 4.5 mo so it may be the longer A time thing. But he's got his brothers cold now so it's hard to judge.. I'll have to wait till he's better and reassess cos his a times are very low now.. Thanks again Sara i will keep you posted

[ZacsMumme]

Hugs on the cold. Sick kids is hard work