8mth old waking 6-7 times anight

[geordiemummy]

Hi everyone,

My little boy Ralph has been extremely hard work since birth and originally posted on EASY board for help with a whole range of problems. We are however still having problems with sleep both daytime and at night. Originally to get him back on track I did AP but fell into the dreaded trap of continuing it just to get some rest. I could kick myself as i knew what the outcome would be  For daytime naps he has been pushed in his pram outside as this is the only way i could get him to sleep without screaming and now he will sleep for 1-1.5hrs which is a massive improvement on the 20min catnaps that he was driving me insane with, he was constantly OT all the time. I dont want this to continue as the weather isnt going to be good forever and its ridiculous really and he should be sleeping inside.

As for the night wakenings he goes to bed around 6.45pm and always wakes 30mins after, usually screaming. I cant settle him in his cot anymore he wants to be picked up and cuddled on bed but even then he resists and pulls, pinches, kicks etc so I put him down and he still screams. Its really difficult as his body language is telling me put me down but when i do hes really upset so in the end I hold him tight until he gives up. He then sleeps until around 9 but will usually settle with a plug in of dummy and holding of hand for around 5mins, then wakes around 10ish, then 11ish when he has a 7oz bottle. He then sleeps till around 1.15 (always this time every night) then 3ish when he wants another bottle and then 5.00 when i can get him back to sleep for all of 45mins! Hes then up around 5.45-6.00.

Lots of questions and thoughts really about whats going on, obviously the majority is my/our fault for AP which i feel terrible over as now my poor little man doesnt know how to get to sleep on his own or how to get Back to sleep. Its the whole reason why I read the baby whisperer to prevent this happening and it has and I feel like a failure 

Hes a big boy but i'm questioning him being fed twice in the night? It seems he is still on 4hr feeding even in night? Pu/PD might be a solution but I slipped a disc a few months back and still struggling with back pain and he weighs 23 pounds! will i have to remove dummy first? or do you think if i drop a feed he might not keep waking?

I'm stuck and in a bit of a pickle and I also have a 2yr old to contend with aswell can anyone help?

Em x

[Skadiver13]

Hi hun sorry I missed this ppst. Will come back later and do a proper response.

[Love, laughter, & PJs]

Hugs! My 8mo is similar. It's so hard! We are ditching the paci as of tonight. I think it will help. I am letting her keep two night feeds. She gets so distracted in the day and I do think she is hungry. We are doing PUPD and shh/pat. Fun times.

[geordiemummy]

Hi, thanks for both of your replies, Its becoming really stressful now and I'm completely exhausted. It wouldnt be so bad if he was a little angel during the day but he's not  His grandparents have named him "the hulk" as when he goes, he really goes. He has a terrible temper and I have the same issues as you Kate with his feeding, he refuses to lie in my arms to take a bottle he wants to sit up and continue to be nosy but I do manage to get all his feeds down him although sometimes takes an hr on and off the bottle. He is quite difficult to manage a lot of the time and because hes so heavy it just makes things even harder especially on my back.

Teething hasn't helped and he already has 6 and he's not turned 8mths yet. But that isn't why he keeps waking as when hes teething he can be up 15times in the night.

I will consider all suggestions in fact I will try ANYTHING (apart from CIO) my partner and his mum think that is the only way to go and is less than willing to help with the night wakings and even more so with removing the dummy, hes very skeptical about any other sleep training method and is causing friction so I'm feeling quite alone 

spk soon hopefully Ema xx

[geordiemummy]

Thought I'd post routine and also to say that last post sounded very negative but when Ralph is happy he is the cutest and funniest little chunk ever 
Monday. Wu 5.45
              E 6.30
              E 7.45
              A 2.30
              S 1 hrs 8.15 am- 9.15
              E 11.00
              E 12.15
              A 3hrs 45
              S 1hrs 15 1.00-2.00
              E 3.00
              E 4.30
              A 4.45
              S 6.45 - awake 7.20, 8.15, 9.30,9.45 ,bottle at 10.00, 11.15, 1.20, 2.45, 3.00 bottle,

Yesterday. Wu 5.50
                 E 6.30
                 E 7.45
                 A 2hrs 20
                 S 1hrs 8.10 - 9.10
                 E 11.00
   .             E 12.00
                 A 3hrs 50
                 S 50 mins 1.00 - 1.50
                 E 3.00
                 A 1hrs40
                 S 50 mins 3.30 - 4.20
                 E 5.00
                 E 6.45
                  A 2 hrs 50
                  S 7.00.    Woke 7.20, 8.15, 10.00 bottle, 11.15, 12.00, 1.10, bottle at 1.30, 3.30, 3.45, 4.00 bottle.

This morning so far Wu 5.30
                             E 7.15
                             A 2 hrs 40
                             S 8.10 until ?

He's been really hard work this morning it's his teeth hope this helps thanks x

[Florena49]

Hi Ema

Just so say hugs and things do get easier eventually, mine isnt the best sleeper either and as ur little one bery loud, heavy and rather demanding. And we still have night wakings, but what jumps out straight away is a very long A time before bed, he is incredibly OT bu the tome he goes to bed and i think this is why you are experiencing these wakings at the beginning of the night.
He is around 8 months now? Is that right?

I would increase his first A time by 10 mins for a couple of days and see if u can get a longer nap there. Jut noticed ur A times vary from day to day, how would u feel sticking to the same A time for a bit, almost do set naps, so ur day is a bit more predictable?

[geordiemummy]

Hi viktoria, yes everyday is slightly different but only by 30 mins or so usually. Yesterday and today he's had a b it of a tummy upset so that's why his sleep was out as he had dirtied his nappy while sleeping. Normally in a morning he will sleep 8.30 until 9.30 ish and then afternoon nap between 12.30 and 1.00 but he never sleeps longer than 1hrs 15 mins which makes the afternoon really long for him. Even when he was having a CN he still woke in the night often. So I'm thinking either extend the naps or earlier bedtime?

I'm thinking of tackling naps first and trying to make them a bit longer and also in his cot. I don't know much about using white noise or whether it will work on an older baby, will see what is suggested.

[geordiemummy]

Anyone available for some advice on a way forward? as I'm becoming desperate now and It's really getting me down 

[Love, laughter, & PJs]

I wonder if that second A time is too long for him. My C is only doing 3h - 3h10 min to get a 1.5-2h nap. Maybe try cutting back on that a bit? Could be an OT nap for you there. I'm also a big fan of EBT. Tends to help in the long run, I think.

Do you think you have the energy to tackle dropping the paci? We are only 1 day in with this kiddo but I know it helped with my others and I think it will help this time around, too. It is a brutal few days, though. Especially without help.

[Skadiver13]

Hi hun have you taken the know your baby quiz? Maybe he's spirited which in that case would change things a bit? Could there be any discomfort unvolved? When he waked at 5:45 do you go in or is he content until later when you go get him? When he does wake at night how is hr? Crying happy? How do you resettle him?

[geordiemummy]

So many thanks for replying, yes he's a spirited baby with truthiness too. When he wakes in the night I used to be able to turn him on his side pop his dummyin and hold his hand and it worked every time but now it only works I'd say 25% of the time so I pick him him up when it fails, as he starts to cry and do ssshhh and  then put him back down however again this is starting to not work and have ended up probably 50% of the time lying him in my arms on the bed till he calms down and stops flailing and then put him back in his cot.

He is still in our room as can't put him in with 2 yr old as he'd wake him up. When he wakes up early morning he lies there for about 10 mins chattering away until he starts to shout for me and if I don't get him out quickly then it can turn into crying very quickly.

There is no discomfort I believe as when he's teething g he really screams and past 2nights because of his tummy upset he's been whimpering with a weary cry.

Hope this answers your questions thanks ema xx

[Florena49]

Hi Ema

30 min of A time is a big difference for a little one. I think you can either tackle naps first and then nights or just do it all together. U will have a rough week or so though, so it is important that you have some support, its not easy, but you can do it! And there will be crying involved, but you will ne with your LO comforting him.

Do i want to ditch the paci? If so, just get rid of all of them in the house, because it could be so tempting tp just give it back to him.

You said your little one is spirited, pu/pd might becom to aggitating for him, so i would start with shush /pat and a sleepy phrase.


So when the time comes for a nap, you do your wind down routine, u pop him in the cot, u say your sleepy phrase and if he is calm u walk away. I know, i know, he is unlikely to be calm, so if he starts crying, you start shush/ pat. You can do shush/pat the way it suits i best. So we did pat the bum or more so the thigh. And u pat him until he is asleep for the first day. For naps u do this for 45 mins and if he hasnt slept at all u her him up and try again when u see his sleepy cues. For BT u shush pat until he is asleep.

[Skadiver13]

Gi Viktoria Im on my phone but can you Link her to the page that talks about ST? so she can read about gradual withdrawl etc? Also Ema I understand havung the 2yr ild but perhaps you could get him headphones etc. for now for when you are ST your lo? that way he may sleep through the crying? Do you think you are a prop at this pont and he can't settle with out your help?

[geordiemummy]

Hi, many thanks for both of your replies. I have tried ssh pat when he was younger and it seemed to work for a while until he learned to roll over and got stronger so he would just push himself back every time I tried to turn him on his side and it turned into a bit of a power struggle. I've tried again lately with zero success as he gets hysterical, arms legs flailing everywhere and hair is soaking wet its awful. He does sleep on his side and when he wakes early on in the night (before 11) ts quite easy to get him back to sleep just by holding his hand or should I say him holding my hand/fingers. He does this a lot even when feeding him so maybe that is the prop as well as myself.
As I mentioned earlier he can't self settle due to my AP and even at BT he is practically asleep when he's finished his bottle and put down.
I have tried with lots of snugglys and comfort blankets for him to hold instead but to no avail. Questions I have are: shall I try ssh pat again and instead of forcing him on his side try it when he's on his back?
Also do I continue with ssh pat even if he becomes hysterical? Should I be cutting out a feed? Last week on a few occasions he was having a bottle at 6.30pm ,9.45,pm 1.30,am 4.00am I know this is too much but he really cried for it. During the day he is having 26oz plus 3 small meals so if u add that to night feeds it totals
 42 oz. Starting to think that may be a prop too,oh I'm so confused and sad that its gotten this far. 

It wasn't the best of starts for us when he was born as he had a posterior tongue tie that wasn't discovered until he was 3mths . Old which caused great distress with his feeding and terrible colic and led to me suffering from post natal depression. I just want to make things right and help my little chunky monkey to self settle and be a more content baby and not OT all the time. I'm willing to try all of your suggestions and think I would rather do it in one go i.e. day naps and night. I just need some sort of a plan that I can work with but need some help devising it.

Sorry for the long post but thought the more info u have the better understanding.

Ema xx

[Skadiver13]

Hi Ema I am at work till this afternoon (US time) but I will send you some info when I get done. Just ine questuon why are you turning him from his side? Amd are you willing to stop all the props I.e. hand hding etc to help him learn to self settle. There will be crying amd tears etc. but you will be with gim to help him through it and he will get there but xonfusing him by going back amd forth wont work if you see what I mean. Does he go 4hrs between feeds during the day? sorry I'm in my ph so hard to look at your EASY right now.