Can a too short last A time cause EMW? 22 months

[jcsmom]

Well tried a 6 pm bed to get caught up and she finally fell asleep at 7:15 and was already awake when I turned the monitor on at 6. I really want to stick to something. Anything that would work. I just want our routine back! I'm exhausted as is she. Not sure if she'd go down after 5 A. That would mean an 11 am nap! She's been on a 12:30/1 nap for so long.

[jcsmom]

 Hi ladies sorry to keep posting. Been looking over logs and a long A to nap produces the best naps however I think she crashes for them then is UT at bed so has an emw due to ut at bed so OT overall. So pushing and capping to 1.5 still makes only 4.5 A to bed after a 1.5 nap which I think is too short so then she either mucks or emw happy. Do I dare try an earlier nap like 12:30-2 7 bed? No doubt that naps over 1.5 rob from her night but it's also the timing of it that messes it all up. Most people I know nap their kids from 12-2 with a 7:30/8 bed or 1-3 with an 8/8:30 bed and they all sleep in. I just can't help but to feel that last A is our culprit. But I have not tried a capped 1.5 ever.

[jessmum46]

I just suggested the 5h morning A thing as when we were starting to hit the 1-0 DD would sometimes go down at nursery for a nap way earlier than I'd have expected.  She wouldn't necessarily sleep long, maybe an hour to an hour and a half, and I'd keep her up until near-normal BT, but sometimes it reset things if she was getting OT.  Just a thought - maybe try it as a one-off? 

We had to cap nap to 1.5h just before 2nd birthday.  2h naps did cause UT at BT but for us it was messing around, not EWing that was the result.  With capping to that length DD was fine with 4.5h A before BT.  I think though long-term if you're pretty convinced that the last A is the issue for you, then you'll have to try an earlier shorter nap and hope that solves it.  Sorry I don't have experience with that other than the odd day or two - never did it consistently. 

[jcsmom]

I'm not convinced of anything, lol! Going to cap consistently for a week and see where that gets us. Can't get much worse, lol! Isn't it weird though that our A was 7 hours this am and she was SOUND asleep. Always is with a HUGE A time. She was very content this PM. Going for bed 4.5 A (7pm) fingers xx. Thanks again fro continuing on this journey with me!

[jessmum46]

Will keep everything crossed for you x

[jcsmom]

She fell right to sleep sttn but was awake by 5:50. So 10.75 after a 1.5 nap. So an emw. This is our issue. Is she emw due to a long am, a short  pm or OT? If I could just shift that wu to 6:30 but I don't think she'll do an 11.5 night after a 1.5 nap. Going to keep at it for the week even though her morning will be stupid long again. It's noon here and shes still happy.

[jessmum46]

You know, that could be an UT night, as in nap still too long.  Give it a week, then you may need to cap further.  Thinking about it we were on 1h30 on days at home at that age, but we probably also had two shorter naps and a NND at nursery per week.  So actually she was on more like an average of 1h-1h15 per day.  Have a feeling our LOs have had similar sleep meds at similar ages from previous threads?

[jcsmom]

I can't help but to think it is an UT night too. Woke babbling. I think we get caught in UT/OT loops a lot, really. I mean a few months ago, she would do a 45-60 minute nap and a 11.5-12 hour night, no NWs. I think what looks like OT on paper is really UT under it all, I really do but I cannot seem to get her on a good routine. I really think it's due to her A times not being quite right. The balance I mean. I think our DDs are very similar. Less day sleep/more night sleep girls. We'll see what tonight brings.

[jessmum46]

How are you getting on?

[jcsmom]

Hey there! We're on holiday so am trying to keep off here! A 1.5 nap is still too long with a 7 bed. Just makes her muck herself OT. So I either have to move out bed as shes not settling until 5.5a np matter how long her morning A so then a short night. At 18 month's she was on nap 1:15-2 bed 7-7. Not sure where to go from here.

[jessmum46]

Hope you're having a lovely holiday

Do you mean she was only having a 45 min nap at 18 months with a 12h night?  Or is that a typo?  Should it be 12.45-2?

I think probably if 1.5h is too long with 7pm BT, then your options are to cap further, say 1h15 or 1h for a week and see if that makes any difference.  Or you could try alternating nap days and NNDs.  Something like 6.30pm BT on a NND and then try the 1.5h nap with 7/7.30pm BT on nap days.  What do you think?

[jcsmom]

Thanks! Trying not to stress! At 18 months she would sleep 7-7 and nap 45 mins from around 1 or she would sleep 1-2:15 and sleep 7:15-6:45. That lasted about 1.5 months. Then her naps lenghtened but I kept BT the same and she would often muck until 8/8:30. Nights shortened so she had a hard time making it to nap time. Then the emws starated about 2 months ago. Now I've moved her nap out it's taking her ages to settle at 7. I think she's UT at bedtime but OT overall as I just can't seem to get into the right groove routine wise.  I tried 4 hours a as her nap was only 80 mins and it's 45 mins later and she's just rolling and yelling. Ugh. Shes sooooo tricky!

[sunflower321]

Hey I'm certainly no expert. My 20 month dd is having her own sleep issues at the moment. Personally I would say she's too young to go from 1-0 and I wouldn't try that yet. I think your nap is too late in the day. My dd gets up at 8:30/9 and she goes for her nap at the same time as your dd who gets up at 6. Would you try gradually bringing her nap back a bit so that she is awake longer before BT? Her a time in the morning is 7 hours and the evening only 4.5 hours. It looks to me like the problem is her evening a time is too short.

[jcsmom]

I agree. She is just mot tired after 4-4.5 a then she has a short night due to bedtime muckimg and too llong of a day. She napped 1-2:20 woke crying now it's 6:30 and shes currently in there singing her abcs. Help! She was OT fir her nap today but is Ut at bed. Confused.

[jessmum46]

What pp suggested about gradually bringing her nap earlier is worth another shot, even if it's not worked for her before.  She may be one who needs that long A before bed to settle.  Have you popped over to the 1-0 support thread?  DD was a long am/short pm kind of girl so I'm a bit out of my depth trying to advise you about doing it that way round, but some of the ladies there might be able to help x