Delay 3-4hr EASY transition?

[Gobolinosmum]

Hey,

Zacksmumme over on the "back on track" page suggested I ask you guys about this one. Not sure if this belongs here or on the reflux pages though so feel free to move if you think appropriate! xx

Little O is 4 months 1 week and has reflux. Was doing great on the 3hr EASY, sleeping 12hrs and putting on weight. As things were going so well I started to gradually transition her to a 4hr EASY at 3.5months, thinking to have her sitting happily on a 4hr routine by 4 months and hopefully avoid/minimise the 3/4 month sleep regression - as per advised by BW. 

As soon as I began inching her intervals longer than 3hrs however, she started waking hungry in the night. I stuck with (apart from GS days when I've fed more frequently) and by 4 months we were on a 4hr routine. It felt forced though as she always seemed hungry early and was waking 1 or 2 times a night. At her last weigh in she has dropped a centile from 50th to 25th.

I have now (for the past 2 days) gone back to a 3hr EASY to try to get her weight up and hopefully our nights back! Her feeds (EBF) have always been short and fretful due to the reflux so perhaps she's not getting enough milk at each feed to last her 4hrs??

Does this sound like the right thing to do? I read all the bits in BW about how keeping them on a 3hr routine after 4 months will disrupt their sleep but it seems the opposite with us. I thought I was being so clever getting her onto 4hrs before she started sleep regression (our little man's sleep was never the same again after the 3/4 month regression  ) but perhaps if it wasn't broke I shouldn't have fixed it...??

Does anyone have a similar experience or is this a common thing for babies not to be ready for the transition?

Thanks my lovelies! xxx 

[creations]

I totally understand your plan to get on the 4hr EASY before the problems hit, sounds well organised to me!  It's just that some LOs can't manage 4hr EASY until later on (Tracy mentions those who were born early or with a lower than average birth weight but it seems there are others too, routines are always based on individual needs of course).  Mine had silent reflux and was small (but not under average birth weight, about 9th centile then went up to closer to 25th) and I also found he couldn't go 4hrs between feeds.  His feeds were quite small and he couldn't go more than 3hrs.
I found at 6 months (well 5.5 months here) when I introduced solids he took them really well and his milk feeds naturally extended because he had the solids between to give him the extra bit of calories to fill him up.
I basically worked out E times and A/S times separately so his A still increased for age but his E stayed at 3hrs. Sounds impossible but with a little fiddling around it works fine. If you see a clash coming up just feed a little earlier (or later if she is going to be asleep and feed as soon as she wakes).
hth

[Gobolinosmum]

Thanks! Oh errr, sound like that might scramble my brain up but makes sense, i'll give it a try. She is a very sleepy baby though, day and night. I think she's always had high sleep needs. Do you know how many hours of A time/length and number of naps is normal at this age? Her sleep window always seems to come sooner than I think it should, i.e. often only an hour after waking up from each nap. Sometimes I try to extend her A time a bit to 1.5hrs but this often ends in her being OT and taking longer to settle.

Thanks! x

[creations]

If her naps are a decent length then I would leave her A time at whatever seems to be suiting her.  However if they are short then she might need an A increase because her 1hr A is shorter than average.
Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!
There's no need to increase her A time just because of the average times though, it's dependent on what suits her and how well she is sleeping.
For instance on 3hr EASY with a 1hr A time your day might look like:
WU & E 7
A 1hr
S 8-10
E 10 (3hr)
A 1hr
S 11 - 1.00
E 1.00
A 1hr and so on

If she sleeps 1.5hrs you can have a little A time before E, so day might look like:
WU& E 7
A 1hr
S 8-9.30
A
E 10
A
S 10.30-12.00
A
E 12.30/12.45 (a little early to allow for nap)
A nappy change (to put in a few mins A before S to avoid feeding to sleep)
S 1-2.30
A
E 3.15 (again a little early)
A nappy change
S 3.30 and so on

So although it's not as 'neat' the day can still work out fine.
If naps are shorter than 1.5hrs I would increase A by 15 mins and hold it there for 3 days then increase again.
hth

[Gobolinosmum]

Thanks, that's really helpful!

I will give her a few days to settle back into the 3hr EASY and work from there. If her naps are too short I can then tweak the A time, like you suggested.

Let you know how we get on!

Thanks for your help! xxx

[creations]

No problem.

[Gobolinosmum]

Hey, me again! 

Just checking in... we went back to the 3hr easy again for a while as we discussed and just rolled with it as she seemed happy. Eventually a couple of weeks ago (5 months old) she just put herself onto a 4 hr easy. The trouble is, although she seems to be able to go 3.5-4hrs between feeds now, she really struggles to stay awake long enough to maintain the easy pattern. She is exhausted after 1-1.5 hrs A time (from the time she last woke, including feeding time etc.) and when I try to push it at all, she gets OT and can't fall asleep. I'm always amazed at how soon she gets sleepy. This then means that even if she has a 1.5hr nap, she tends to wake up long before her next feed time, which messes up the pattern as we then need more A time before her next feed and then she's sleepy again straight after! We've just been muddling through really and it's not the end of the world I'm sure but it does make things confusing and I'm having trouble keeping track of timings whilst dealing with a mischievous toddler at the same time. I often don't feel she's had much of a routine at all at the moment! She's also been ill this week which has thrown everything off again.

Night times have been no better. She's been waking 1-2 times a night for feeds since 3.5 months. Long gone are our days of 12hr sleeps!! Since she's been ill it's been every 4 hours, day and night... I hope this isn't becoming a pattern but I suspect It may well be. It's so hard to know with her reflux though, perhaps she needs the extra milk at night. Her weight has settled now and she's climbing steadily on 25th centile so I think her milk intake is fine, but that's including night time milk. If I didn't let her feed so often at night, perhaps it would drop again? I'm ok really but the tiredness gets to me sometimes and I crashed my car a little bit (just a small dent  ) last week after a particularly bad night. Thinking I could just use a few more zzz's! Not so easy when you have two cheeky monkeys to care for!

[Martini~]

Hi! Hugs for disturbed night sweetie, hope they will be better soon!

Regarding feeding/sleeping pattern you can try to mix 3 and 4h routine. Let's say:
7am WU
8:30-10:00 nap (1,5h A)
-- 10:30/11:00 F
11:30-13:00 nap (1,5h A)
-- 14:00/14:30 F
14:30-16:00 nap (1,5h A)
17:30-18:00 catnap
-- 18:00 F (let's say one side)
-- 19:00/19:15 F (second side)
19:30 BT (1,5h A)

If you can take longer naps from her, you may try skipping one nap and do:
7am WU
8:30 - 10:30 nap
11:30-13:30 nap
15:30- 17:30 nap
7pm BT

However with 1,5h awake time, I would try to go with 4 naps as they will give you less daytime sleep (5:15h) than 3 naps routine (6h) and BT is slightly later also - what may help in his night time waking. Also cluster feeding in the evening may help to tank him up for night.

Regarding awake time, you are right that 1,5h is quite short for almost 6mo but maybe that's what she needs so I wouldn't be so worried!

HTH