Author Topic: 6 month old waking after bed time  (Read 1807 times)

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Offline Martika

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6 month old waking after bed time
« on: July 24, 2014, 20:30:21 pm »
Hello all lovely ladies (and gentlemen)! I'm desperately looking for some help as over a month of trying has left me completely out of my depth. I've been reading and trying to implement all sort of changes but to no avail.
Anyway, here is our problem.
My DD has just turned 6 months and wakes up anywhere between 30 min to 2 hours after going to bed crying which then escalates to screaming. It normally takes over an hour/up to two hours to settle her for the night.
She is on 4hr EASY and her A time is 2.5hrs to 2 hours 40 mins. She's got no medical condition, though she may be teething. However, I am quite positive that her wakening up is not related to any pain.
She self settles for all the naps and bed time nicely. However, when she wakes up after having slept for some time at night she wants me/DH to be there with her and starts screaming as soon as we start leaving the room. We are only able to leave her when she is calm and then she settles herself to sleep. But it may take up to 2 hours. This way she robs herself of a good night sleep and only averages about 9-9.5hrs at night instead of 11.
I've tried bringing her bedtime forward with only two 1.5hrs naps thinking that she may be ready to drop CN. I've tried fitting in another CN before bedtime aiming for about 12hrs day. She is still awake after having fallen asleep at her usual time. Somebody mentioned that it may be OT. I realise that she is tired from lack of night sleep, but shortening her A time gives me short naps (she used to be a short napper until about 5 months old). How do I solve this problem? Is it OT? I don't have Y time in the evening any more and I can't see my DD constantly tired from lack of sleep. Please help!!!!!
Our EASY over last few days was
WU 7am
E 7am
Breakfast 8.30am (just starting solids)
S 9.30 - 11 am
E 11 am
S 1.30pm - 3pm
E 3pm
S 4.45 - 5.15pm
Bedtime routine - 6pm
E 7pm
Bedtime 7.30pm
Awake 8.15pm (ish)
S - 9.15 - 9.30 (ish)
NF - between 2 - 4 am
This has been our EASY over last week (it may move within 30mins depending on her WU time in the morning) as I've been trying to get her over her OT. As mentioned before I also tried to move her BT by about an hour especially when she had a later start of the day. She still wakes up and is awake for up to 2 hours (just like now still struggling to get settled for the night).
Please anyone, what can cause this??? I am willing to try anything.

Offline Buntybear

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Re: 6 month old waking after bed time
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2014, 17:40:36 pm »
Bumping for you :)

Offline jessmum46

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Re: 6 month old waking after bed time
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2014, 11:39:23 am »
Usually wakings at that time are OT, however discomfort is something else to consider.  Is she teething?  Have you tried pain meds to rule it out?  Have you recently introduced solids? 

Her routine doesn't look bad really, although perhaps her A times overall are a little short.  This is the age for the 3-2 so you might want to start gently extending her A times and working towards two naps.  A good rule of thumb for us was if second nap ended at 3pm or later, we did a two-nap day with BT (asleep) 3h after waking from second nap.  If second nap ended before 3pm we did a short catnap and normal BT.  Worth a try?
***Katherine***







Offline Martika

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Re: 6 month old waking after bed time
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2014, 19:50:13 pm »
Many thanks for getting back to me, Jessmum. It's very much appreciated!!!

Well, it looks as if we've got some improvement here, though I don't want to speak to soon (FX)
I think I can confirm now that she was extremely OT and it took us over a week (!) of solid routine and proper 2x1.5hrs + CN to get her over this night crying. I thought that a day or two would've done the job, but at least it finally worked. For the last four nights she's been very good with no extended wakening. She would still occasionally wake up at about 40min mark with the same type of cry if she's had some short napping during the day, but would settle back to sleep when reassured or dummy put back. So, I feel as if I'm getting my sanity back   :)
And yes, you're absolutely right - her A time needs extended. She's at 2hrs40min - 2hrs45min at the moment as from yesterday she's started giving me short naps again. However, I find it very difficult to extend her A time as she is extremely clingy, grumpy and fussy at the moment. All she wants is to be in my arms and do all the playing/reaching for everything around from there. She used to play on her mat on her own quite happily, but now bursts into tears as soon as I put her down.... Is it OT once again or is it just a phase?  Anyway, today she had 45min (2hrs35min A time in the morning), 1hr15min and 30 mins naps. She then woke up 40mins into her night sleep crying but settled back to sleep within 1-2mins. So I'm at risk of returning to that OT cycle. I'll try my best to avoid it and am planning to get her to 3hrs A time by the end of the week.
I was thinking along the same line Re second nap end and BT. Though, I was thinking more 3.30pm for the second nap to end. I'm a bit cautious about putting her to bed too early as I really don't want her to be up before 6am. Is it possible if she rarely does 12hrs night sleep? Am I risking having her up at 5.30am if I put her down at 6pm?

Offline rebemuri

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Re: 6 month old waking after bed time
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2014, 02:11:43 am »
So glad you're making progress there!!   :)
Rebeca

Offline Martika

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Re: 6 month old waking after bed time
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2014, 19:32:33 pm »
Many thanks for your support!

Well, just when I thought I'd cracked it, we seem to be sliding back to OT cycle. I extended her A time to 2hr50min and she still gave me a 40min nap. I waited for 15min to see if she would get back to sleep but she was wide awake and happy, so no chance of extending that nap. The second nap was 1hr and the third 50min (though, she normally does 40min, 1hr10min or 1hr30min, so not sure where those funny naps came from ::)
..........................................................................
Just as I was writing it we had another crazy crying. I can't believe we are back to this  :'( I have to get her naps sorted. That means extending her A time to 3hr. Is it possible that she is now ready to jump to 3hr A time while she was quite happy on 2hr30min just a few days ago? I just don't want this to start all over again!!!

Offline jessmum46

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Re: 6 month old waking after bed time
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2014, 07:18:15 am »
She could be a bit overall OT from the jump in A times.  She may well be ready for 3h though - our A times increased rapidly at this age.  But I also wonder about teething - clinginess/crying and odd nap lengths are very common (we typically had naps of about an hour when teething). 

Wrt 6pm BT - my LO always tacked on sleep very well, and so in the 3-2 transition we often had days that were 11/11.5h long so 12-13h nights.  EWs only happened here if she was OT going to bed - conversely putting her down earlier before she was OT led to a later WU.  Some mums do report their LOs won't ever tack on sleep though and that EBT doesn't work well for them.  I guess the only way to know is to try it :). But yes you could easily make your nap cutoff 3.30pm and EBT 6.30pm.
***Katherine***







Offline Martika

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Re: 6 month old waking after bed time
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2014, 14:30:58 pm »
Hi Jessmum and many thanks for your answers to my questions. You can't imagine how much I appreciate it.

I feel very discouraged today. We had a bad night yesterday with three wakings after BT, which were getting progressively longer and worse. The last one before she finally settled for the night was accompanied by screaming/shrieking and I just couldn't get through to her to stop it. Felt very bad and sorry for her. I eventually BF her and let her fall asleep on me (she doesn't ever do it apart from these late night wakings when she is just desperate to get back to sleep). Needless to say, we had a very restless night...
Today our naps are back to 40min. Normally after a short nap I find it very difficult to read her tired signs these days (it used to be pretty straight forward). She would rub her eyes shortly after her short nap (though, I tried putting her back to sleep straight away to no avail), but closer to her normal nap time she gets more and more alert. So, she's just down for her 3rd nap and I reduced her A time right down.
So, early BT for us today and I am dreading tonight :( I will definetely try 6pm BT. Hope it works for us.
And yes, I do beleive she's teething. But I don't think her wakings are due to pain. I now give her Bonjela before her BT just to exclude the pain issue. In the past we also gave her Calpol at times, but I don't think it ever made any difference.
Well, another day tomorrow... Hope it gets better soon.

Offline jessmum46

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Re: 6 month old waking after bed time
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2014, 14:58:36 pm »
Hugs for the rough day :( fingers crossed the EBT helps x
***Katherine***







Offline Martika

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Re: 6 month old waking after bed time
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2014, 16:02:09 pm »
Sorry, I haven't posted for a few days. I don't really have much to report, we are still trying to settle and establish a new routine, which proves to be a challenge.
Unfortunately, EBT (6pm) was a bit a disaster for us. She was asleep for 6pm that night (she was ready for it) but woke up 40min later as expected. She then was awake for the longest time yet - 2.5hrs (?!), alternating between just lying there quietly, playing, crying and reapiting it all over again. Did she just view it as another nap? I don't discard the idea completely, but that night wasn't easy at all.
Over last few nights we had a bit of everything - being awake and needing some time to seetle, being awake and settling straight back to sleep or even sleeping right through. So, I take it as an indication of improvement since we've had some good nights along with some not so good. At least, I know what I'm working on.
I've got a question though. I know that I'm aiming for 3h A time for her (holding it at 2h50min at the moment, will probably try 3h tomorrow) and as an outcome I would like her to do 2x1.5h naps to transition from 3 to 2. At the moment though she does anything but 1.5h - 40min, 50min, 55min, 1h, 1h5min, 1h10min, etc. What can be the reason for it? I just don't seem to be able to get her A time right to get a good nap. Should I extend her A time further?
Jessmum, you mentioned that it may be due to her teething. I'm positive she is struggling with it right now. I do give her some bonjela before her BT. Should I try it for her naps as well? Will her naps improve or is there anything I can do?
As I mentioned earlier, I feel as if there is some progress with her night wakings. But I'm struggling to get her naps sorted and am concerned that we will slip back to being very OT.
Any advice would be very much appreciated.

Offline jessmum46

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Re: 6 month old waking after bed time
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2014, 10:57:10 am »
Topical gels for teething are ok but they are pretty short-lasting. To be honest the only thing I ever found really effective was ibuprofen, but I'm not sure if you're comfortable giving that.  Some people prefer to avoid medicating if they can, but to me, I'd have some painkillers for a headache so I'm ok giving them to LO for teething pain.  Usual caveats - follow manufacturers instructions and check with your doctor/pharmacist if unsure ;)

Can you post the last couple of days for me in EAS format?  Might make it easier for me to make some suggestions about the routine :)
***Katherine***







Offline Martika

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Re: 6 month old waking after bed time
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2014, 13:55:21 pm »
Hi Katherine,

Many thanks for getting back to me. You can't imagine how grateful I am for your help.

I couldn't remember our Sunday EASY times, so yesterday went like this:

WU 6.10am (DD was very restless from about 5am, so 6.10 was when I saw her open her eyes; she might've been awake for a bit longer. I then gave her plenty of time to see if she would get back to sleep, but she was just playing there)
E 6.30am/ breakfast 8am
A
S 9.00am - 9.40am awake until 9.55am (while I was getting ready to get her) and then back to sleep until 10.35am (so, 2 x 40min)
E 10.40am/lunch 12.00
A
S 13.30pm - 14.00 (30min OT nap?); awake until 14.20 and then back to sleep until 14.38 (18min)
E
A
S 16.50 - 17.20
E 6pm & 6.40 pm (did a split feed to see her through her bath time)
S 19.05
awake 19.10-19.20
awake 19.50 - 21.15
finally settled for the night at 21.15
NF 3am

Today
WU 6.45
E 7am/breakfast 8.30
A
S 9.45 - 11ish (1h10min to 1h15min; not sure)
E 11am/lunch 12.20pm
A
S 13.55; woke up 14.30ish (this was the first time she’d slept on her side. I don’t know if it made any difference to the length of the nap)
Once again, I left her in her cot to see if she would get back to sleep. I then realised that she’d filled her nappy. Nappy changed, it was time to eat... So, only 30min nap 
E 15.00
A
S 16.30 - ? (just down for her nap)

So, as you see there is no consistency with her naps at all. I feel as if I try everything and then she does this silly short nap again and we are up for another difficult night... I could cry :'(
Also I should mention that she seems tired all the time, from the moment I take her from her cot. She constantly rubs her eyes and yawns. I'm always tempted to put her to bed earlier, but then she just does a short nap. And this morning I kept her up for 3 hours and she slept for over an hour. However, in the afternoon just under 3h A gave me an OT nap. I'm just tired of constantly trying to guess when to put her down. It also affects her night sleep, with many wakings.
Sorry for this post, I just feel so disheartened.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2014, 15:41:24 pm by Martika »

Offline Martika

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Re: 6 month old waking after bed time
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2014, 18:42:41 pm »
Just to update on the rest of our day

S 16.30 - 17.10
A
E 18.00 & 18.40 (split feed since she is not getting any solids in the evening yet and the bath time becomes difficult)
S 19.25 (was in bed for 18.55 but it took her a while to get to sleep, which is very unusual)
awake 19.30 (she's just started doing it, 5 min into her sleep, maybe over the last 3 days and it takes her 5-10min to settle)
so, sleeping at the moment... how long for? :)

Offline Martika

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Re: 6 month old waking after bed time
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2014, 19:07:56 pm »
awake 19.57 for about 4min...

Offline jessmum46

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Re: 6 month old waking after bed time
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2014, 07:27:29 am »
Hugs, it can be really frustrating can't it?  I did find 4-6 months the hardest for sleep with DD, it did settle out somewhat once we were through the 3-2.

I think from here what I would do is do 3h first A time.  Then if it's a good nap 1.5h or more, do another 3h A before the next nap.  If it's shorter but still an hour or so, or a broken nap, maybe try 2h45.  And if it's shorter than an hour follow her cues but somewhere around 2h30.  I can't promise it will be completely right for her, but I always felt better with a plan :)

***Katherine***