FED UP with 5am/5.30am WU (6mo)!

[Mackjack]

Hi there,
DS is 27 wks old. I've had various sleep issues but to summarise he is an independent sleeper, on a 4 hr EASY, can handle A time of between 2.5-3hrs, STTN, controlled reflux, on solids (we're doing BLW), recently switched from EBF to formula feeding.

The issue is that for weeks now he is waking between 5-5.30. It doesn't matter what time he goes to bed (I've tried as early as 6 and as late as about 8/8.30), how many naps he has or how long they are. It is driving me crazy!!

The other morning, I woke at 4am so thought as I was up, I might as well try WTS but when I looked in his room he was shuffling about and seemed very restless so I thought I would be risking waking him so didn't do it. I also woke at 3.40 the other night and noticed he was wedged horizontally in his cot so moved him - he woke and smiled at me but went back to sleep. Although a little early in the night for WTS, I was hopeful that this might have had a similar effect and disrupted his sleep enough to 'reset' his clock but sadly not! I also tried PUPD for 1hr 20 the other morning and it made no difference at all. He seems to wake in the morning with a start and cry/whinge but when I go in he is smiley and blowing bubbles.

Up until Weds when DD finished preschool, 5 days of the week his naps were a mess as the school run totally disrupts his day and he gets 30mins there, 15mins here etc so I was hoping that once we were in the holidays, his naps might get better which might improve the EW. It's only been 2 days and his naps haven't been amazing but no improvement so far. He may be going through the 3-2 transition but when I've tried to only give him 2 naps at the weekend, it has meant a long A time before BT (about 3 hours) and I think that's too much for him - but I couldn't give him less A time because BT would be ridiculously early.

Here's our EASY:

TUES
WU 5.20
E 5.40
S 8.30-9 on school run
E 9.30
S 15mins on way to preschool and another 15 on way back - so he woke about 12.15
E 13.30
S 10mins in car about 14.30-14.40
S still really tired so went down for a nap at 16.00 really easily - woke at 16.50 (think he was woken by DD)
E17.40
S 18.50 - tried an earlier A time before bed and he went down easily
NW 20.40 - settled easily - OT?

WEDS
WU 5.20
E 5.40
S had a nap before school run which I had to wake him up from before we left 7.40-8.20
E 9.30
S 10.40-11.35 - again, I had to wake him to pick up DD and he slept a little bit more on the way
E 13.30
S Fell asleep on way to DD's ballet about 13.40-14.00 then again on way back so I put him straight in his cot and he sletp 15.00-15.45
E 17.30
S 18.15

THURS
WU 5.20
E 5.40
S 8.20-9.40
E 9.45
S 12.35 fidgeted for a while before falling asleep and only slept 40 mins til 13.10 - OT?
E 13.45
S 15.50-16.55 I woke him from this as I was worried it was a bit too long so close to BT
E 18.10
S Was rubbing eyes so went to put him down at 18.50 but realised he'd filled his nappy so had to bring him back downstairs to change him. This seemed to send him over the edge and when I tried to put him down he had a meltdown - asleep by about 19.30

Woke up this morning at 5.35

He is currently still napping after going down at 8.10 (it's now 9.50). I will probably let him go no more than 2 hours...?

Any thoughts gratefully received!!

[Mackjack]

PS - this morning when he woke at 5.35, I held him for about half an hour just to try to get him back to sleep or at least string out his feed til a little later. He was closing his eyes on nd off  but really fidgeting (and cooing!) so didn't go back to sleep.

[Buntybear]

Bumping for you   

[PuppyLuf]

I'm not sure where you live, but my son (same age, same general situation) has been doing the same thing.  I realized one of the factors was that it is light here at 5:30.  This started in May / June, so I completely blacked out his windows.  Like jet lag, waking up early due to light takes about 2 weeks to get over (resetting circadian rhythms).  If his room isn't blacked out completely, you may want to try that for a few weeks.  I noticed my son falling back asleep on his own after his EMW much more easily when the room was dark.  I read that for it to really truly work, you have to make it so there is no difference whatsoever in the darkness level from middle of night to morning. HTH.

[Mackjack]

Hi.  Thanks Puppyluf. Sorry for the delayed reply.  Where we are at the moment is if he has 2 good naps (1.5/2hrs) and an early BT (about 6) he will usually do about 12 he's at night and wake at a decent time. However if he has rubbish short naps - whether that's a few little ones when we're out and about or 2 short ones and an app 3rd one,  then we usually get EW.  Its so frustrating because if his first nap is short then that's it - I know we're going to have an EW the following day and there's nothing I can do about it. I don't know if its because I'm too scared to do a really short A time before bed when he's had short naps - I never really go below 2hrs A time?

[Mackjack]

Sorry, that's meant to say "12hrs" at night and "apop" 3rd one.

[Mackjack]

And sorry Puppyluf like,  meant to say yes I wondered if it might be something like his room being too light but I think - *think*- it's too do with his naps and OT.  Although I'm open to suggestions...!

[Mackjack]

...not sure where that "like" came from in the first line!

[Mackjack]

Ok so now I have another problem but I think it's probably linked to the EWs/general OT!

 BT is beginning to get a little difficult. Usually, when I put him down for naps, I hold him, he lays on my shoulder and closes his eyes then I put him in the cot, he opens his eyes, looks at me and shuffles about as I leave the room and goes off to sleep. But now at BT when I hold him he's messing about - grabbing my face and hair, blowing bubbles. I usually put him down like this, leave the room and after a few minutes he'll start crying. So I wait a bit, go back in to ssh him and he'll start playing with me and smiling (even though I know he's tired). So I'll leave the room, he'll start crying, I go back in - etc, etc. Eventually, I have to pick him up and only when I've picked him up this second time will he settle on my shoulder.

Now, even though he's all smiley and playing, I think he's OT. Looking at today's EASY would you agree??

NW woke at 5am, whinged a bit til 5.10 went back to sleep.
WU 6.10
E 6.15
S 9.05 -11.00 went down easily and I had to wake him from this nap
E 11.00
S 14.00 only slept 45 mins - not sure if this was OT/UT?
E 15.00
E 17.45
S tried just before 18.00 and he did what I described above. Eventually went to sleep at 18.35

[PuppyLuf]

OMG... I thought I had written this...  Your situation is exactly like mine.  MY LO's been doing this since six months and nothing much has changed (he's 7.5).  Early wakings, naps affecting them, smiling and playing when I come in, all of it.  He's finally getting out of the stage of trying to get me to stay in there by playing with him (I was bad and had to leave BW ideals to get him to stop that, but obviously don't recommend that as the best method).  The morning waking is still sporadic and affects his naps.  I think it's just that transition from 3-2 naps and it takes a long time.  Good luck and I hope someone has good ideas for you that I can steal!

[Mackjack]

Hi Puppyluf. Glad someone else feels my pain. I've noticed the past couple of nights that if I manage to keep the A time before bed to about 2.45 (especially if hes had a rubbish 2nd nap) he goes to bed easier  - but I'm finding I have to hold him at BT til he really calms down and starts to close his eyes. Did this last night and he slept exactly 12hrs  I.e6.10pm-6.10am which was amazing especially as he had 2 naps of almost 2hrs (he woke briefly around 9 is and needed resettling but I think that's because he has a cold). Today we had 3 naps - 50mins,  1hr and 35 mins - again, think these were due to his cold.  I'm guessing he's just incredibly sensitive to OT and so is struggling with the 3-2. Think that's what it is with your LO?

[Mackjack]

Ok now we're getting shortish naps of about 1hr 20 for the past couple of days - is this length nap usually OT or UT? OR something else? Can't remember.

He had a 3 hr A time in the morning yesterday then a 1hr 20 nap, then a 2hr 45 A time and another 1hr 20 nap. Then I intended to get him to bed about 6pm but he fell asleep in the car for 5 mins so it ended up being about 6.30. He went to bed fine but woke after 45 mins. I was trying to settle him for ages and he was just playing with me so DH took over and he went mental - really cried. Finally got him down after about 45mins ( I had to take over again and cuddle him to calm him down). He slept til 6am with a brief wake at 12.30 as he'd got stuck on his front.

Today, he had a 3 hr A time this morning, slept 1hr 20. Then I intended to just give him 2hr45 A time but  he seemed ok so kept him up for 3hrs. Went down absolutely fine but woke up at 1hr20. He was very upset when I went into him but was soon smiling.... So he woke at 14.40. I tend to go for early BT on days like this so am going to try for about 17.40 (which is still a long A before bed but I'm a bit scared to do it any earlier and I don't have the energy to try for a 3rd nap - 3 naps usually give us an EW anyway).

[Mackjack]

Got him into bed at 17.50....and he woke at 45mins again. Aaargh, what's going on?!?!?

[Lindsay27]

I am thinking he's slightly UT - have you tried pushing the A time to a little over 3hrs for his naps?  Maybe 3.15?  I'd give that a go and see what happens

[Mackjack]

I haven't tried that yet, no. Do you think that the WU 45 mins after bed was OT too as he didn't seem UT, he was quite upset.  Or do you think he's UT for his naps so he's having short ones and is then OT for BT??

[Mackjack]

Oh dear.  It's 10.30pm and hes just woken again.  V upset. DH is trying to settle him. ...

[Mackjack]

Oh god, oh god, oh god, it's 1.10 am and we are STILL trying to settle him! !!! We've had everything from crying and screaming to smiling and blowing bubbles. He just will not go to sleep. Currently screaming....

[Mackjack]

So he finally settled at 1.30am.  That's a 3 hr NW. And he still wipe at 5.45 for the day.  We tried everything to settle him during those 3hrs - meds,  putting him in a warmer sleeping bag,  changing his nappy.... what on earth could that have been about?!

[Mackjack]

*woke* not wipe

[Lindsay27]

Sorry you had such an awful night!!  Are there any teeth on the move perhaps?  Sometimes those crazy nights just happen.  For today I would just let him catch up a bit if he wants to take some longer naps, or earlier naps then hopefully you will get a good night and can start fresh.

[Mackjack]

It couldbe teething although im not really seeing any other signs. It just dawned on me this morning that his reflux meds might need increasing.  He's been pooing for England - last time he did that,  coupled with weight loss and some bouts of inconsolable crying, an increase in his Ranitidine put a stop to the symptoms instantly. So I'm seeing the Dr today. Don't know why it didn't occur to me before- think I'm just always overly optimistic that he might have grown out of it.  Let's see...

[Lindsay27]

You are probably right, good thing to get to the doc ASAP.  I'm sorry I don't have much experience with reflux unfortunately.  Let me know how things go and I can get some reflux eyes on this as well if you'd like

[Mackjack]

Fab thank you so much. Dr has increased meds so fingers crossed and will keep you posted.

[Mackjack]

AARGH! These NWs are getting ridiculous!!!

I don't think it's the reflux. We've upped the meds and he seems fine but the NWs are still happening. They're not every night and it never seems to happen on consecutive nights but when they do happen, they are loooong.

Last night he woke at 11.10 for 3 hours- I went in and put a hand on him and he settled within a couple of mins. I stayed a few mins to make sure he was completely settled then left the room. A few minutes later he woke crying again so I went in. I was convinced he was in pain as he just kept crying even when I held him and he kept tilting his head to the side as though tooth/ear pain (he's been tilting his head like this for a few weeks tbh). SO I gave meds and kept alternating between holding him and settling in his cot. After about 2 hrs of this crying he was laying in his cot looking v drowsy when PING! as though a switch had been flicked, he opened his eyes wide and started smiling and trying to play with me!! So I decided to leave the room. Started crying again so came back in - he tried to play a bit more then was crying again. Changed his nappy in case it was making him cold as it was full - no difference. At about the 2hrs 45 point, DH came and took over and finally got him to sleep  by sitting on the floor and shushing him. So this was about 2am. He slept til 6.45.

WHAT ON EARTH could it be?!?

My EASY for the past couple of days has been as below. We occasionally have a day of 3 naps if necessary but this is not very often. His A time is about 3 hrs except if he's had a bad nap, or is very sleepy, when it can  be more like 2hr 45:

MONDAY
For some reason I just can't remember the morning at all - think he might have napped in the car when we were out and about. He fell asleep in the car later for a short time so had a late afternoon nap when we got home at 3.30 of 1.5hrs
BT 19.30

TUES
WU 6.30
E 6.30 8 0zs
E 8.30 Solids
S 9.30 - 11.00
E 11.00 8ozs
E 12.00 solids
S 14.00 - 15.15
E 15.15 8ozs
E 16.30 solids
E 18.00 3ozs
S 18.30 (would've got him down earlier, about 18.15 but he struggled to settle a little bit - only took a few minutes to settle him when I went back into his room)
NW 11.10 - 2am
WU 6.45

Any ideas would be very gratefully received as I am stumped!!!

[Lindsay27]

Oh hun!  Those long NW are a killer!!  Your routine looks pretty good, decent naps so I'm not sure that it's a OT or UT issue.  Do you think there are any teeth on the move?  Have you tried giving meds at the NW to see if that helps in case there are teeth moving around?

[Mackjack]

Yes, teeth is the only thing I can think of. I gave him meds last night (Calpol) about 15mins after he first woke. He's been tilting his head again today, a bit grumpy and his ear is a little bit red. If it was an ear infection, do you think I would know about it by now (as these night wakings have happened over the past 8 days). Is a red ear a sign of teething? He's just gone down for a nap and was grumpy so I gave him Calpol again. His nap this morning was only 1hr10 - is that a possible indication of teeth?

Yes, they are a killer!!

[Lindsay27]

I don't have much experience with ear infections, but this is what baby center has to say...do you think he has any of these symptoms?

http://www.babycenter.com/0_ear-infections-in-babies_83.bc

He could be a bit OT from the long NW, or the grumpyness could be teeth too, my DS was always super grumpy with teeth!

His nap this morning was only 1hr10 - is that a possible indication of teeth?

This is usually a sign of UT, have you thought about/tried pushing A times slightly over 3hrs?

[Mackjack]

Yes, could be an ear infection....have an appointment with Dr in the morning.

I wondered about UT - but it's hard to tell whether they're tired or not when they're just so grumpy!! He's just gone down for another nap after 3hrs A time so I will see how he does but yes, I will definitely think about pushing his A time. Just wish a tooth would pop out one way or the other so I know!!

[Mackjack]

Turns out he has tonsilitis!!! Just a mild case apparently. His ears are inflamed very slightly - all linked apparently. He's pretty much fine in himself but  have antibiotics on standby in case he gets a temp/goes off his food/basically shows signs that it's getting bad. Dr advised only to give antibiotics if really necessary as LOs can usually fight off mild cases perfectly well by themselves. So let's just see how it goes....

[Lindsay27]

Glad you found the answer!  It definitely sounded pain related.  I'd probably just give the meds and get it all over with LOL!  Easy for the doc to say not to give them, he/she doesn't have to deal with a non-sleeping baby!

[Mackjack]

Was going to give the meds but he's been v happy the past few days so I'd rather not give him antibiotics if I can help it.  However last night he woke from 2-3 am - started off v happy and smiley but started crying when I tried to leave the room. He's on about 3 hr A time but am wondering if I need to push that. He had a 1.5hr am nap but only 40 mins pm.  Does this NW sound UT? I thought UT NWs would last longer than an hour?