need a plan to stop 5 mo old nw's and partial co-sleeping

[mariawargo]

Hello! My son is a little over 5 months.  He is EBF. I have him on a pretty good EASY during the day. When he was only a couple months old he used to naturally sleep 6-9 hour stretches at night but now he wakes up several times a night.
I know I have been APing as Im exhausted and also have a toddler so havent had time and energy to put into teaching independent sleep as I did with my first son. But Im ready to force myself to sleep train and just need help with coming up with a good plan.

Here is his day:

6am wake and eat (doesnt eat much here because he nurses too much during the night)
830 nap
10 wake and eat
1230 nap
2 wake and eat
430 cat nap
5 wake and eat
730 nurse him to sleep.

usually wakes up  by 930, then again around 1130, 130, 330, 5. I try to feed him in his room and put him back in his crib after but the later night feedings are when I usually bring him to bed with me and nurse him so I can get a little sleep.

I know I have to teach independent sleep and put him to sleep at night without nursing him.
I know I should do wake to sleep an hour before his usual wake ups.

Is his last A time too long?
For his naps I usually can't get him to sleep without bouncing him on his mattress, but he does usually take a full nap for me. How bad of a prop is that? I find it hard to take time to do PU/PD because I have a 2 year who is in and out of the room.

In some ways I feel I know what to do, but in some ways Im so tired my brain is not working well and I just need someone to tell me in a clear way what to do and in what order.  Any help is greatly appreciated!

[jessmum46]

Yes I think his last A time probably is a bit long, usually you don't need a full A time after a short catnap.  I would try a BT more in the 6.30/7pm range and that will also stop his day being longer than 13h which often causes OT.  Otherwise routine looks good

With wakeups that frequent I wouldn't bother with w2s just yet.  They don't sound like habitual wakings as such, more just that he is waking at the end of every sleep cycle because he's not an independent sleeper.

It's up to you whether you tackle nights and naps together.  I would, that's easier for LO to understand (and more opportunities to practice) but many people do naps in a different way to nights and it works ok.  Basically it's whatever you think you can manage. 

Do you think you'd be up to PUPD at night to begin with?  I would nurse him at BT in a bright room, sit him up if he falls asleep and then put him in his crib fully awake.  Say goodnight and leave.  If he cries an 'I need you', return to him and use PUPD until he goes to sleep.  When he wakes at night check the clock - has it been 4h since the last feed?  If yes, go straight ahead and feed him (ok to feed to sleep).  If no, use PUPD all the way until he goes to sleep (even if it takes you past feed time).  You can then feed at the next waking if it's past 4h by that point. 

What do you think?

[mariawargo]

Thank you so much for your reply. I hope you dont think Im rude- my life has been so crazy I have not had time to get back on until now!

Things are going better! I am putting him down awake, doing a dream feed and he's only been waking once a night now and sleeping in his crib all night! We are DEFINITELY making progress and I think the key was making sure he fell asleep in his crib. I already knew that from my first son but for some reason wasnt do it. Exhaustion I suppose.

So, things are better but not perfect. For example, I still can't get him to sleep without bouncing him. When I hold him, he wants to nurse, even though I know he's not hungry. Even when I initially put him in his crib I put him in crying. When I try pupd I never get him to calm down in my arms becasue he is trying to scooch down and feed and gets increasingly frustrated. So putting him down and bouncing him to calm down works for me and I try to stop bouncing after he calms down so he falls asleep without the bounce. PUPD DOES work when my husband does it. Is this a typical problem for a breastfeeding mother? Any suggestions?

Also, one night this past week we had a horrible put down- 1 hour of PUPD by my dear husband. When I tried to dreamfeed I couldnt get his mouth to open so he didnt dreamfeed AND he didnt wake up at his usual 3 am wake time. He slept all night long and didnt eat from 8 till 545 am. Does that mean he is ready to go all night every night? should I try to cut out the 3 am feed? Or maybe I should cut the dream feed? Is it possible it disturbs his sleep since the one night I didnt do it he slept all night long?

Thank you times a million!

[jessmum46]

I don't think you're rude at all . And glad that you have seen some progress!

I think bouncing to calm him is ok, in the same way you might give LO a cuddle before putting them down in the cot.  I think you do the right thing to stop as soon as he is calm though or you risk it becoming a bit of a prop. 

Yes it can be harder for bf mums to do any sort of sleep training if LO is used to falling asleep on the breast.  My suggestion would be for DH to handle as much of the settling as he is willing/able to, and hopefully with time it will be easier for you to put him down too.  I don't see an issue with you settling him in a different way to DH though - different carers will always do different things and LOs can get used to that.  For example my DD always settled completely independently at home, but at nursery would be rocked or have her back rubbed to get to sleep which would have never worked for me.

Sorry to hear about the 1h PUPD, but honestly in the grand scheme of things that isn't too bad at all.  Maybe LO was a bit UT or OT at BT and found it harder to settle for some reason.  Often once you've established PUPD and LO is settling independently, suddenly taking longer to settle can be a routine issue so worth bearing that in mind.  The really good night afterwards may just have happened because LO crashed after a tough BT, but you can definitely try skipping the DF to see if that does make a difference.  You can always reintroduce it if you end up with more wakings.

It's really up to you if you want to try weaning the 3am NF.  My feeling is that STTN isn't a one-way process, and therefore I would generally tend to feed at night until well established on solids provided it was a reasonable interval (4h or more) since the last feed.  With DD I planned to tackle her remaining night feed at 7/8 months once she was having a good amount of solids, but she actually dropped it herself at 7 months.  That said, if LO slept through the 3am feed for a good few nights in a row, I might be tempted to try settling in another way if the waking returned.

Hope that helps!

[mariawargo]

That does help- thank you so very much. I think you're probably right about him still needing the 3 am feed. My husband got him back to sleep when he woke up at 3 last night but he woke 20 minutes later and seemed hungry.

But Ill take 1 feeding per night- its definitely better than the 4 or 5 we were doing before! Thanks again!!