So we really need some help. STing a v spirited 13mo-it's not going to be pretty

[cuckoochick]

So it's nap-time and I clearly don't have a plan. I'm sat where she can see me but faced away. She's alternating from screaming to playing. It seems silly to be sat here while she's playing but if I leave then she gets worked up v quickly but perhaps wi/WO would signal it's sleep time more. Idk? What exactly do I do with WI/WO? It took her an hour to settle with me in the room last night but at that rate she won't be settling for a nap. Is it try for 45mins still? Her routine has been pushed too far forward because of these nights and DH and I stupidly let her lie in because we were so exhausted too. I'm so cross with myself today because I clearly don't know what I'm doing. I know she isn't CIO as I'm sat here and she's now blowing raspberries having a whale of a time.

[cuckoochick]

She ended up going to sleep after 25mins. I hate the crying but now that we've come so far, I know we have to go on. I'd really appreciate any thoughts so I can formulate a better plan for BT tonight. She is not going to be happy with not nursing and as it's our only feed, I feel as though if I drop this, I might as well stop BFing altogether. Really it is just for AP now and it's losing it's magic anyway. But then I also feel desperately sad but I know of she thinks there's an option for boobs she's going to go nuts.

We're thinking of changing up the evening routine so that the girls will have a bit of supper and milk before their bath, then teeth brushed and stories together and then new BT for G. Why do I feel so bad about this? C is v distressed at the crying but I guess it's best to do this while she's on school holidays and can lie-in to catch up.

Any thoughts greatly appreciated x

[4isstillnighttime]

No useful thoughts, but lots of hugs. She sounds determined and very clever - makes ST tough but otherwise these are brilliant qualities to have and you must be really proud of her.

[cuckoochick]

Thank you. She is v bright. I knew they would both have different personalities but they are so v different. G is so so determined. This is a fab quality in her but also makes her a bit more scary to handle! Ha! She goes from 0-60in a few seconds! Ha! She's brilliant and I know once we get this sorted, it will be so much better for her and for us all. She will just not go to bed for DH and really we'd like to have a bit more flexibility now x

[4isstillnighttime]

Of course. And you will get there, and it will all be better for it.

I didn't see your bit about dropping the feed. I have just stopped BFing as I will have to start travelling for  work soon so I wanted the girls to get used to no BF before there was no BF and no mummy at the same time. But it was horribly sad, and I am still a bit sad about it. But things that helped me were building in a special cuddle before bed where we read a story and cuddle really close, and remembering that BFing is just a part of being a mum, and that now they are older we have so many more ways to show our love - cuddles, songs, stories, pancakes for breakfast, trips to the swings.....and so I did all of those things for a bit, cried a lot....and got roaring drunk one night for the first time in about 2 years!! 😄 I'm here if you want to talk about it though. It is sad, but it's a lovely thing to have done for both of you, and you have given little G such a good start!

[ZacsMumme]

Sorry Hun...it's been night time here so I only saw your posts now.
If your going to do WI/WO you will have more crying. But like I said, it works much quicker (I think) and is less confusing for them.

I would talk to her during the day about how she is going to sleep on her own tonight, then do your BT routine. Nursing at BT is fine IMO. I still give T a bottle before bt Z had a BF at bt till 18 mths too. After BT routine say your sleepy phrase and pd into the cot then WO. Once at the door take a breath and listen. Don't panic and run back in or you may miss what her crying is telling you. If she starts to cry an I need you cry then you WI - say your sleepy phrase and then WO.

You will be in and out for a bit, but then you will figure out her mantra, or settling cry, or she it'll start to try to settle herself and you may then only have to go in and out a few times in say z20 mins before she drops off. You then do WI/WO at NW etc. if your going to try to wean the Bf at night it's a good time to do it too. Go CT on the lot.

Could DH or you take C and have her away from the crying. Or put some kind of white noise between the rooms temporarily? The other focuses on G and getting her to sleep on her own?

 

[cuckoochick]

Thanks sweetie and don't worry, you gotta sleep!

So, BT was before I saw your reply but DH did BT tonight!!! We did stories in C's room and G had a bottle. She loves books and is v excited to be having stories in C's room. It wasn't particularly calming but I figure it will get easier. Then DH took G into her room while I stayed with C for more stories and cuddles. He sang to her for a while and then put her in her cot and continued singing to her for a few minutes. He gave her a lovey to cuddle and then sat out of her eyeline. He shhhed if she got really upset and lay her down a few times but she went to sleep in about half an hour. That is a big improvement on the other night which was an hour. I guess now we need to work on getting out of her room before she is asleep but I'll take where we are for a bit for now.

It hasn't really sunk in that I think we've stopped BFIng. I fed C until 18mos too and I kind of feel guilty but I think it would be harder to get her off and into bed if I keep the BT BF.

[*Liz*]

I've always used WIWO with my 2, both of them always struggled with any form of STing with me in the room. If I sat on a chair doing GW they would have gone on forever  .

We had a bit of a relapse with Megan at a similar age (DH got into the habit of cuddling her to sleep when I was poorly - then guess whose job it was to fix the issue  ). I did a fair bit of sitting on the landing out of her sight, and intermittently saying 'its sleepy time Megan'. Often the crying was much more in line with her being annoyed and cross rather than full throttle need iyswim?

Unless it makes them really worked up, it is a great STing tool.

I think I would just try and explain to C what is going on. She isn't much younger than M is she? M would def be able to understand that she was very cross with Mummy, but she needed to learn to sleep nicely now that she is getting bigger so she has enough energy to play. And that Mummy and Daddy need enough energy to play as well.

How did it go this evening?? Like you say, you have started now so really need to see it through, and in just a few days all should be an awful lot better 

Just seen you reply - glad it is better - hugs for the end of BFing but I think you are right that it would be harder xxx

[cuckoochick]

Thank you. Liz

We have explained to C and she seems to understand but doesn't like the crying. She has lullabies playing in her room but G is SO loud it's difficult to drown her out! Anyway, it's school holidays so if C is up late she will lie in and copes well with later nights. I need to pull G's routine back as we've gotten into this cycle of late to bed and late up or late up because of the long Nw and then with her high A times it's been hard to pull back even when we've cut her nap to 45mins. I've decided we'll have to take the plunge and just get her up at 7:30 tomorrow (she was asleep by 20:50).

But yes, I was pleased with how she settled for DH tonight. Xxx

[ZacsMumme]

I understand Hun. Z found TOms crying quite distressing too. Even with explaining they still feel 'sad' and worry don't they poor little kiddos. We actually turned his white noise up loud as well while we did it

The first few days are tough, I totally agree about waking her, even after the late BT. You can go for EBT if you need to or cap that nap to get back on track but honestly, I think this is a prop issue and things will settle as you move forward (they did with us anyway at this age )

Hugs and sending vibes of strength xx

[Sarah - Enfys' Mum]

I hope your night was okay.

[cuckoochick]

Thanks. She STTN. We woke her at 7:30 as per the plan. Some of the settling issue was for sure UT I think because well we can't have it all (early To bed and a lie-in) so DH and I want to get that 7:30 BT back even if it means being up at 7am! It's been ridiculous her not going to bed until 9pm and C even as nice as an 8-8:30 lie-in has been!

[<Catherine>]

Nic, I'm following just so I can add any help that I may be able to. I don't really have experience of WIWO to this scale, we do it with Ben on the odd time now that he needs it but he is not in Miss G's league at all so a very different story!!

The only thing I will say is that I've found that the rare NWings we do get now have been when the nap has been before 1pm (we have a WU of 7.30/8am usually) and/or longer than 1.5-2hrs. I think Ben needs at least 5 hours A time either side of the nap. BT here is 7.30/8pm, roughly 12 hrs from WU, and we generally get 11.5-12hr nights.

I know you've got more issues going on than nap length/time that need to be tackled first but something to keep in mind too.

Good luck honey, I'm rooting for you 

[cuckoochick]

Tonight isn't going so well. She's losing the plot for DH. I am lying within Charlotte and I feel sick. She napped 1.5hrs today until 2:30 (she settled for her nap within 10mins). I'm worried she is UT. DH is in there shhhing and you'd think he was murdering her. I am beside myself here.

[4isstillnighttime]

I'm holding your hand. She's angry, remember, not sad. And she is a clever girl and will learn quickly.

Poor all of you though.