Always hungry

[lilac83]

Anyone else's toddler seem to want to eat all the time? It seems like every 2 hours M is asking for food! I don't want to overfeed her though. She already gets her 3 meals plus 2 snacks plus 3 bottles. She's only in the 50th weight percentile for her length so she's not overly large. Should I feed her whenever she asks or try to hold her to certain times?

[*Ali*]

I'd let her eat as much as she wants at meal and snack times. Every two hours is pretty normal.

[lilac83]

Thanks. This seems to have started once she was fully transitioned to whole milk on her first birthday. Would the whole milk be less filling than the formula? I'm considering going back to formula for her morning bottle, keeping the nap bottle whole milk and the bedtime bottle formula. I know I'm supposed to be moving away from bottles and only giving milk as a drink but she doesn't eat much food in any one sitting yet and seems constantly hungry.

[creations]

I'd focus more on the solids at this point rather than worrying which milk she is having.  Too much milk now might prevent her taking in the foods she needs to satisfy her hunger, whilst I can see why you are still offering the 3 bottles they may not be helping in the way you hope.  It may be that more protein could help keep her satisfied or that she'd prefer her solids meals at a slightly different time so she is hungry enough to take in the amount she needs/wants (without being full on milk at the time).  I know for instance when mine was younger he would take a huge snack around 10.30am whilst other LOs seemed satisfied with a little bit of fruit my DS would have the fruit, more fruit and 6-8 pancakes! When he was a bit older he seemed too hungry (asking for food before BT) I switched breakfast to a protein meal (omelet) and it stopped the pre-BT hunger because his needs had been filled earlier in the day when he was willing to eat protein.
Do you want to post your E times and what she's having, see if we have any ideas?

[*Ali*]

There are marginally less calories and fat in whole milk than average formula but not by much.
What about offering 4 smaller meals and 2-3 snacks a day? I often end up putting my kids lunch back in the fridge and they eat it an hour later if they don't want it all. The snacks needed not be big or hard to prepare. A banana, a few chunks of cheese or a yogurt for example could help her get through to the next meal.
I'm not sure how big her bottles are but if it is 3 big ones then that sounds like quite a lot. In the UK we are recommended to give around 12-15oz of dairy (that includes cheese and yogurt, not just milk). I believe in the USA the recs are more like 16-20oz between 1-2yo. Over 20oz may be filling her up too much without the actual calories she needs.
I personally would not go back to bottles of formula but would instead concentrate on offering calorific and nutritious solid food to increase her intake of that.
Posted with creations...

[lilac83]

I thought as soon as I posted that going back to formula isn't the answer. She's always been such a tiny eater, so maybe small meals and snacks is what she needs. She doesn't seem to have a time she's hungriest. I would assume breakfast would be large since she has no morn feeds, but she's still not very hungry. Here's an average day:
7am - 1-2 1 inch diameter pancakes, 1/2 cup mandarin oranges, 1oz whole milk from straw cup
8am - 4-5oz whole milk bottle
10am - small handful fruit puffs
11:30am - 1/4 meat and cheese sandwich, 2 tbsp veg
12:00 pm - 6oz whole milk bottle
3/3:30 - few bites of cracker
5:00pm - small portion family meal, usually 1/2 cup total intake
7:00pm - 8oz formula bottle

Any ideas? Does seem like a lot of milk not much solids but not sure how to encourage her to switch it around. She gets water throughout the day as well.

[creations]

Just throwing some ideas out there...
What time does she WU? Just wondering if her food is coming a bit early for her? Mine would eat almost nothing when he woke if I offered milk as soon as he woke (when he was a baby or even now as he starts the day with a cup of milk), I had to wait 30 mins for him to take a decent feed.
Not sure what fruit puffs are but perhaps this smack could be switched for something more substantial? A hard boiled egg or omelet or some more pancakes?
Possibly look at making lunch later, say 12.00 instead of the 6oz bottle?
The 3pm snack looks like she isn't very hungry, again I wonder is this when she is waling from her nap and she isn't ready to eat?

Looks like about 20oz of milk, although the guidance where you are is higher than here I'd think she's getting too much, it really looks like she isn't eating the solids because she knows milk is on the menu later on.  I'd choose which to drop and do it gradually but quite rapidly over a few days.  I'd go first for the 12.00 milk - if you give the sandwich at 12 and finish off with a smaller bottle initially (say 3-4oz) then next day drop the milk again (2-3oz) and within a day or 2 of that offer water only, in a bottle if necessary (for the soothing aspect if she needs it). Thing is she is unlikely to take more solids whilst she is full on milk so will need help to switch over.

I'd see where her solids/milk intake gets to after that.  Being me though, I'd prob drop the other bottles pretty soon too.
Are you able to brush her teeth after the 7pm bottle?  That was my motivation for dropping the BT bottle at 12 months tbh, lots of people drop the morning bottle and keep the BT one as it's soothing in the evening but I knew I had to switch our routine around to get his teeth brushed after the bottle so though I might as well drop it and keep the morning milk instead. Much later my HV told me it's a good idea to keep fluids higher in the morning hours for PT which might not be on your mind at all yet but could be worth taking into consideration too.

[lilac83]

Actually she wakes between 6/6:30 in the morning and about 2 from nap. I'm definitely game for dropping oz in bottles. Before her nap today I gave her 4 instead of 6oz. I'm also going to start dropping her bedtime bottle from 8 to 6oz. Then she would be getting 16oz total. However, if I ever want to give her yogurt or cheese for snack she would be getting rather high again. I don't think either her or I am ready to fully drop any bottles. Maybe the morning one but afternoon is before nap and helps her settle and have a full tummy. I gave her a protein snack this afternoon, chicken nugget and peas and carrots. I'll have to try some different protein ideas, she's never had egg or peanut butter so I should probably give those a try.

[lilac83]

And 1.5 hours after her snack she was inconsolable. She just slammed a 6oz bottle of formula. Do you think because she was a late eater (didn't start until 9 months) she just isn't ready? I don't know how to help her.

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Are the recs in the US still to not give allergenic foods until later on? Here they changed all those since DD2 was a baby. I would consider giving egg a go. Is she picky over textures at all? DD3 loves things like hummus as a spread on toast or scrambled eggs with a bit of shredded cheese on top. Meat is also a fav, the more flavourful & saucy the better!

[creations]

And 1.5 hours after her snack she was inconsolable. She just slammed a 6oz bottle of formula.

Which snack and bottle were these?

[lilac83]

That was in the afternoon, and of course she didn't eat dinner but drank another 8oz before bed. Im thinking i should have offered her a small snack instead. This morning I added yogurt to her usual breakfast and so far she has been playing happily and hasn't asked for a bottle yet. I'm hoping she'll make it to nap and I can work on eliminating the morning bottle. It will all depend on how well she eats am snack I guess.

I think as long as there's no family history of allergies I can offer at 1. I'm going to give egg a try this weekend since that would be great protein! So far she's not too picky, just a very small eater.

[*Ali*]

Although some paediatricians may recommend waiting until 1yo to try certain common allergens like egg the AAP don't. They say
 "Within a few months of starting solid foods, your baby’s daily diet should include a variety of foods each day that may include the following:
Breast milk and/or formula
Meats
Cereal
Vegetables
Fruits
Eggs
Fish"
http://www.healthychildren.org/English/ages-stages/baby/feeding-nutrition/Pages/Switching-To-Solid-Foods.aspx

[lilac83]

Thanks, she eats all that except egg. I'm hard boiling some and will try it for snack this afternoon. Snack this morning was a total bust. I gave her cheese and crackers but she tossed all the cheese to the dog and only ate a small handful of oyster crackers. So 30 minutes later she was hanging on me crying and hungry so I gave her a 6 oz bottle. I can't get into a good routine with her eating all these tiny meals so I give her the bottle knowing that will hold her off for awhile but then it's a vicious cycle. I don't want to take the bottle away because she finds comfort in it but I'm going to need to pick times and amounts and set some boundaries.

[creations]

I'm going to need to pick times and amounts and set some boundaries

I agree with this. Decide, then do it. If she's asking for food there's really no reason it needs to be milk. Why not re-offer the same thing she had earlier or have a few things ready to give her so you aren't caught on the hop?
I used to keep steamed veg in the fridge for a couple of days, pancakes, mini muffins.  Crackers, breadsticks and bread are easy enough to just grab at a moments notice, fruit too, a few grapes say or raw sweet pepper cut into strips. It doesn't all have to be big fully prepared meals.
Is she taking some water with her solids meals and snacks too?

[lilac83]

I looked at the portion sticky and she really is awfully low for her serving sizes. I'm thinking of making the daytime bottles 4oz over the next few days, like I had mentioned before but then started getting scared she was starving  . Then I'll work on dropping one or the other in the near future. She does drink water and juice from a straw cup. She can down 4 oz of juice in a minute so she can drink well if she wants to but i think the warm milk in the bottle has become comfort more than anything. And while i dont mind, i do know its not the healthiest for her.

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

She might be mad about it but kids just don't starve themselves - she will eat eventually when she is hungry enough and realizes you mean business with limiting bottles. I hope the egg went over well!

[lilac83]

The egg did go over good, she ate half of one! Today I tried giving less milk and at lunch she only ate 1/2 a chicken nugget.....that's it. Dinner wasn't much better. Basically 1/4 of a small crescent roll and a teaspoon of peas. Surprisingly though, she didn't act like she was hungry between meals/snacks. Hopefully tomorrow will be better.

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

I find it helps to keep in mind that their tummy is roughly the size of their fist...so much smaller portions than even an older toddler/preschooler.  Plus they are good self regulators!

[*Ali*]

Which portion sticky did you look at? I just read the No More Portion Distortion and Portion Size Primer on Snacks and IMO they are aimed at preschoolers and older children not a 1yo.

The info from the AAP and Canadian govt here is much more in line with the appropriate age range IMO. Serving sizes and healthy snacks for toddlers and Canada's Food Guide for ages 1 - 3 yrs

Both the latter FAQs recognise that the average 1yo's intake will be much less and maybe half that of a 2-3yo's. My kids were definitely eating significantly less at 1yo than they were at 18mo and 2yo.

Plus of course it will take a while for her reduced milk intake to result in the increased solid intake. 

[lilac83]

So it's been a few days and it looks like the midday bottle has been successfully switched to a straw cup. Turns out she doesn't like cold milk but as soon as I warmed it she started drinking 4-5 oz from the cup. I'm going to stay with the morning and bedtime bottles for a bit yet. I did drop bedtime from 8 to 6oz so she's getting 14-16oz per day instead of 18-20. Her food intake has increased greatly and most days she doesn't even need morning snack anymore!

[*Ali*]

Sound perfect

[creations]

[lilac83]

Things are still going well but now I'm torn on if I should drop the morning bottle. She drinks the entire 6oz and eats a good breakfast about 30 minutes later but never really asks for it which got me thinking I should drop it before she gets attached. The problem I'm now facing (seems I'm always facing a problem!) is my older dd starts school in 2 weeks. I was going to keep the bottle and feed M breakfast after the school run but now considering feeding them together. This could get a little chaotic some days though and I hate rushing but in the big picture it might make life easier than keeping the bottle past when she really wants it. I've asked dh his opinion but he's of no help, just says "doesn't matter to me." Ideas?

[creations]

Sorry I'm about as much help as your DH Just do whatever fits with your day the best.

[lilac83]

I know in the long run it doesn't really matter. She's just been so incredibly fussy in the morning for the last month and I can't shake the feeling that something's off with her routine. She's always been such a tricky one to feed, so unlike her older sister! I know part of the fussiness is the fact that she's not entirely ready for 1 nap but I can't make my older dd spend her summer vacation sitting around the house while her sister sleeps either. I've been going through the posted routines on here and it seems like most toddlers give up that morning bottle pretty quick and just have it with breakfast so maybe that's the route I should take. The way it stands, she starts fussing at 8:30 and doesn't stop until lunch time at which point she's been sucking on her paci for at least 1.5 hours and that just drives me mad but so does listening to her fuss. I bought teething tablets today though so going to try those tomorrow. Sorry I'm such an undecided mess with all this, if she were happier it wouldn't weigh on me so much.

[creations]

The way it stands, she starts fussing at 8:30 and doesn't stop until lunch time at which point she's been sucking on her paci for at least 1.5 hours

Does she continue to fuss when having a mid-morning snack too?

[weaver]

Robin, just chiming in to say, that my 2 and a bit yo is a real grazer so I go out of my way to make sure that just about everything I offer is nutritious.  I can understand why small folks might not want big portions, having never been a huge eater myself!, and also why small folks might not have the concentration to sit and eat at designated meal times.  It often happens with LO2 that she will eat some of a meal, go off for a wander and a quick play, and come back to finish what she started. But we also have meals where it looks like she has eaten nothing.    As Heidi says, though, she will not starve herself!  She has a decided preference for sweet things, so I limit these .   I think the best thing in these situations is to set up it so you *know* that 95 per cent of what's on offer to her is healthy stuff, and let her regulate her own intake.

Why not re-offer the same thing she had earlier or have a few things ready to give her so you aren't caught on the hop?

I do this ALOT.

[lilac83]

I thought M was starting to eat more food since she was drinking less milk but perhaps she is just a grazer and I should try offering more frequently. I'm totally grasping at straws here because something has to change. She's going into her second month the of being so so fussy all morning long. With snack, without snack, with going outside, without going outside. I even tried to lay her down this morning but of course she refused, she hasn't had two naps since she was barely 11 months old. I posted on the food allergy forum wondering if it could be the whole milk, I'm completely out of ideas.

[weaver]

  sounds maddening!