waking 30-70 min after bed time--pls pls some help

[mommytogabriel]

Hello mammas!

I posted recently about 11 month old schedules so please bare with me if this is a little repetitive. My little boy generally always follows our routine and is a great sleeper. However, the last 2 weeks he is either waking 35-45min into his second nap and is now (never before) waking 30-75min after bedtime!! Last night he woke several times between 745-10pm? What is going on OTHER then the 2-1transition. (which if it is I don't know how to fix his routine?)

Wake-7-1045am
Sleep-1045-1210pm
Wake-1210-340pm
Sleep-340-445pm
Wake-445-745pm then bed.

I'd really appreciate some help! He keeps waking around 830-9pm and hard to resettle!

[Martini~]

Do you think he is OT or UT at BEDTIME? How he behaves when woken? Wants to play?
Have you tried to cap his afternoon nap to let's say 30-45min? Is he also cranky and have problems with settling?

[mommytogabriel]

I have no idea whats going on anymore. He was such a textbook baby that now im at a loss. He usually wakes around 410-415pm and is crying hysterically ( so hes getting 35-45min in the afternoon)! He doesn't seem overly cranky before bed either.

[jessmum46]

How old is he now and how long was he on that routine for?  Any teething at present or new milestones eg walking?

If he's been on that routine a while my bet would be UT for afternoon nap but then OT for BT because the nap is short.  If he still settles ok at his usual naptime but wakes early, I would try pulling BT a bit earlier, say 30 mins or so.  The alternative is you push his second nap later, and BT may need to go a touch later too.

[mommytogabriel]

he is 11 months old and has been on this routine (give or take 10 min or so) for the last couple months. My question is what do you think is routine should look like? How much day sleep is good for this age (2.5hrs?)

[jessmum46]

I would have said 2-2.5h as a maximum unless high sleep needs, usually one long nap (1.5-2h) and one shorter nap.  I would try one of the suggestions above - either push second nap and BT slightly later, or keep second nap short and where it is, and bring BT a touch earlier.

[mommytogabriel]

Currently im waking him at 1215 to get up. If i push out the second nap, from your experiences what time would you suggest? 4-445? so a 45min nap if he got 1.5hrs in the morning? However, if i put him down at his usual 345 and he wakes 40 min or so later do you think 730 is a good bedtime?

Im just very confused at this stage. He has always been so easy and now that hes off his normal routine im at a loss.

[jessmum46]

I would do either 3.45-4.30ish, with 7/7.15pm BT, or try 4-5pm with normal BT of 7.45/8pm.  I can't tell you which will work best for your LO as some do better with longer naps and are happy with a shorter night.  My DD always preferred a longer night so I would have gone for the shorter nap and earlier BT. 

[mommytogabriel]

i tried doing the 45min pm nap and then bedtime 3 hrs later and it seems not to be working at all. I just dont understand how he can all of a sudden refuse bedtime sleep when he's never done that before. (WENT DOWN 345-440... TAKING INTO ACCOUNT SOMETIME TO ACTUALLY FALL ASLEEP)
Any other suggestions from anyone id appreciate it

[Martini~]

So can you post what have you done exactly? And how he was behaving?

[jessmum46]

What length nap is he usually used to in the pm?  He may need BT sooner than 3h after a 45 min nap.  At a similar age we had first and second A times of getting on for 4h, but only 2-2.5h after a shorter pm nap.

[mommytogabriel]

Awake-7ish-1045
Sleep 1045-1215
Awake-1215-355
Sleep-355-430
Awake-430-720pm

Thank you ladies again!

[Martini~]

I guess you have to try different options and check what's working.

I would say that problems are coming from UT generated somewhere during day, but agree that in the evening he may be just OT. Have you tried to push his morning A, have a decent nap of 1,5-2h as you have but finished later in the day and than making a short nap after shorter A and again having shorter A till BT?

So ie:
7-11 awake /4h
11-1 nap (if you push the morning A slightly you may get a decent 2h nap)
1-4 awake /3h
4:30-5:00 nap
5:00-7:00/7:30 awake/ 2-2,5h

It would be a great start to 2-1 transition. In coming weeks/months you may push first awake time and first nap, when having second nap between 4:30-5:00 but shorter and shorter and than you will finally cut it out? WDYT?

[mommytogabriel]

In theory your plan sounds great! However, I don't think he would go down after 3hrs in the afternoon. So my issue now becomes how to fit everything into one day if he's doing a 3.5-4hrs awake time in the afternoon.
He did this yesterday and he somewhat okay with it.
W-7-1030
S-1030-12
W-12-345
S-345-440
Bed just before 8.

However, he generally wake a little later then 7 sometimes which means he going down closer to 1045ish...then the whole day gets pushed so late and I don't know what to do.

[Martini~]

I would advice you to APOP this nap if it's possible (walk in a pram, car ride, sling - whatever works for you). I know many mummies here do it, including me:) as this is a common problem with CN. This is only a temporary solution until you get to one nap. There is no other option how to switch to one nap differently as you cannot just push forward his 1st nap by 2h in one day.

So I would take care of his first A and trying to get 2h nap of him so he is well rested and you need only short catnap in the afternoon. You may also need some experiments with time of this catnap (maybe he needs 40 or maybe 20min).

When I drop the catnap (did it already twice when going from 4-3 and 3-2 naps) I used different solutions. For 4-3 drop it was a jump in A and S length and I think it was a mistake. We had some really OT baby on days where other naps didn't go well. When going 3-2 I was doing it for weeks. Always APOPing a last catnap, doing it at the same time (4:30-5:00) and making it shorter and shorter. He finally just dropped it by himself but as it was already 10min long despite dropping he was not OT by BT.