7.5 month old several night wakings

[Moo moo]

Hi

My 7.5 month old son is waking several times at night but is great during the day. In the Night he'swaking every 1.5/2.5 hours! He doesn't necessarily need a feed.. but he needs resettling.  He won't settle on his own and it can take a long time to settle him.

As background he self settles in the day and has two 1.5 hour naps. He just does not self settle at bedttime and I have to shush pat til he sleeps.  Then he'll sleep for 40 minutes and wake up and needs resettling.  At this point shush pat doesn't work and I need to hold/rock him to sleep.  After this he wakes every 1.5 or 2.5 hours. At these waking I have to again rock him and he seems tired (crying with eyes closed). He'll sleep in my arms but wake up when I put him down in the cot.  He used to go 3 or 4 hours in the night between feeds. Now he's waking so much more but also seems to be demandingkmore night feeds. I end up feeding him every 2-3 hours in the night.

He hasn't been on solids for long but he's having 3 decent meals.  Having read other posts I've realised he is quite distracted during his breastfeeds so that's something to work on.

Here's an average day:

Wake up 7.15am
Breastfeed 7.30
Solids 8.30
Nap 9.30-11 (self settles)
Breastfeed 11.30
Solids 12.30
Nap 1.30-3
Breastfeed 3.30
Solids 5pm
Breastfeed 6.30pm ml
Bed 7.15pm (in cot 7pm but won't self settle so takes a while to go to sleep)

I would appreciate any tips.  He's never been a great sleeper but it'sgetting ridiculous now. And he's 7.5 months old. . Surely I should be getting more sleep by now 

thank you!!

[Kellyjs]

How's he doing with the solids hun? I was thinking he may be filling up a little too much with those and not taking as much milk during the day? I would look at cutting back on the solids so he gets more milk as that's so much more important and of greater nutritional value before 1yr.

I don't think we moved to 3 solid meals a day until DD was over 8mo. As you said, he may be quite distracted and not taking as much during the day.. Is it worth going somewhere quiet and in low light as I've seen on here that seems to help.

Otherwise wrt your routine, that first A looks rather short. Most lo's are on around 3hrs 15mins ish. And your last A is rather long that might be causing your early wu after BT as he's OT before bed. Also that might be the cause of not settling as well.

How about you look at moving out that first A by 15mins every few days and reducing that last A to a max of 3hrs? Wdyt?

[Moo moo]

That all sounds great.  Everything you've said makes so much sense. I have been concerned I'm overdoing the solids but I thought as I always breastfeed first it was on to follow his lead.  But think I'll focus more on the milk feeds.

Also yes I totally agree about his A times.  Until you pointed out I didn't think anything of it. As he was FINALLY having really good naps,  I took that as a sign his routine was all good. But totally think I could stretch him out a bit longer and cut down his last A time. Thank you.. I'm going to give all this a go.  Feeling much more positive. . Thank you!

[Kellyjs]

Yep  I'd focus on the milk feeds. It's so great when they enjoy the solids but it often takes away from their intake. It's so hard to tell when breast feeding but can show up in the night time!

I thought it was great you were still getting longer naps too on those A times. Obviously a good little bubba you have there!!

I'd stretch out that first A time slowly so he doesn't get OT. Perhaps 15 mins, then hold for 3 days then up it again?

So glad you're feeling positive. I'm sure it'll all work out, especially with reducing that last A time. My LO is very sensitive to OT before BT...I can spot those cues a mile off! Good luck, let me know how it goes x

Eta.. I think 1 or so NF's at this age is still ok especially when breast feeding so if he does wake hungry, I'd feed even when the routine is sorted.

[Moo moo]

Oh Kelly I really hope you can help me! Things just seem harder.  I tried to slowly extend my son's A time. Started with 2 he 45 mins but he doesn't self settle then and wakes up after 40 minutes. So I follow his cues more and this means he ends up having A time of 2 hours 30 mins and things go much better then. But the nights are terrible. I'm really focusing on the milk feeds and feel he's definitely taking in more now.

Problem is his last A time is still Kong and come bedtime he takes ages to settle.  Still wakes up after 40 mindand takes ages to resettle. Won't even settle if i rock him. Takes ages.  And then he wakes several times at night. Any thoughts on what I could do until i manage to extend his first two A times?  It doesn't seem feasible to squeeze in a third nap. Would it be ridiculous to try a 6pm bed time? So wake up 7am, naps at 9.30am and 1.30pm for 1.5 hours each and then bedtime at 6? That feels really early but wondering if he'd have a better night. Or any other thoughts?

Thank you so much. I hope you know what a difference your support and help makes to people

[Kellyjs]

How is he when he wakes from those 40mins naps? Is he happy and playing or crying? Does he settle better on his own at 2hrs 30? Are the naps still 40mins at that A time? Is the 2hr 30 after a short nap? Remember cues can become unreliable at this  age. Mine rubs her eyes when she's hungry or thirsty.. Took me a while to figure that out.

No it wouldn't be unreasonable at all to have a 6pm BT. We've done 5.30pm on occasions when the nap was rubbish!

Yep, I'd try and keep the day shorter if he's doing shorter naps, otherwise if he does do two 1.5hr naps you may find the max sleep he can have at NT is 12hrs so might wake up at 6-6.15am and throw your next day out.

Is he nearing 8mo now? We had a really tricky time with sleep around this age. W2s was the only thing that solved it but I have a feeling your A time might need to be higher for it to work. Might be worth a try though? I was in your exact same position at 8mo. The short A times ended up really messing about with the night sleep and we had cot parties in the middle of the night which weren't fun. It took me a long time to
get past that initial A time, but once we did, I found she jumped from 2hrs 45mins to 4hrs A within a month!!!

How do I address habitual wakings? (wake-to-sleep and other methods)

[Moo moo]

Thanks for responding so quickly.  He seems fine when he wakes after a  40 minute nap. Not unhappy at all but I tend to rock him back to sleep to get a longer nap and he falls back to sleep quite quickly and will then sleep another hour!!
Yes he definitely settles better after 2 hours 30 mins A time. I can put him down and walk out and he'll settle.

When trying to extend the A time Iif he wakes after a short nap would u suggest that I don't resettle him and just let him get up? And in that case should the next A time be the same length or a short one?  I just fund it hard to make sense of why his naps are shorter when his A time is longer.  Esp when the longer a a time is not very long at all for his age.. (2 hours 45 mins)

He's 7.5 months.  Will be 8 months on 10th sept.

Oh yes I should try w2s for the first wake up of the night.
Thanks x

I guess I will keep trying to extend his A time. 

[Kellyjs]

Hmmm, difficult one but as you say the A times are really low for his age, but they are just a guide.

Wrt the short nap, I would try and resettle for a max of 10-15mins, if he doesn't look like he's going back down I would get him up and try a slightly shorter a time to the next nap. Here is when it gets a little difficult. Some lo's like mine can do a full A time after a short UT nap. First I would try 15mins less and see if not you'll know for next time.

I would try w2s on the naps hun. So at around 30mins, go in and rouse him gently by stroking his cheek try not to wake him fully (but it does happen), wait for him to sigh or his go breathing to change slightly then back quietly out of the room. As I said though, as the A times are a little low it may not work and you may find he'll wake up completely. But worth a go?

[Moo moo]

Thank you I will give this a go and continue to try to extend A times. Thanks again and II'll let u know how it goes xx