30 minute wake up

[twinmama2]

My 9 month old twins wake up 30-40 minutes after falling asleep EVERY NIGHT.  Sometimes it's just a fuss for a few minutes and they put themselves back to sleep, but most of the time they get very worked up and I need to settle them.  They don't do this at naps (used to, but not anymore).  We tried wake-to-sleep about a month and a half ago and it did not work.  We only tried it for about 3 nights, but they woke every night just the same.  We paid for a sleep consultant to help us with our many sleep issues and when it came to the 30 minute wake-ups she thought that they were just overtired.  They go to bed at 6:00 every night (3-4 hours after waking from their last nap).  After over 3 weeks of an early bedtime, we have seen absolutely no improvements. 
Any ideas?  I am completely stumped on this one.  I've tried everything I can think of and need some fresh ideas. 

[lauradj]

Hugs hon! This must be a really struggle.  I need to think on this some more and get back to you.  Could you post their EASY?

[Frostygrrl]

Hi, my 9 mth use to do this but after 1.5 hrs. I think she was over tired and we implemented 3 sleeps in day care of 35min-40min each and 1.5 hr x 2 during time she was at home, using wake to sleep. She now does 3 hrs. I'm hoping to push this longer, by w2s just before I go to bed.

[Lindsay27]

Ya, I think a NW shortly after BT is usually OT - might be able to spot something once you post your EASY

[twinmama2]

Thanks for getting back to me. 
Here's a typical day for us:

6:00-6:30 awake
7:00 breastfeed
8:00 breakfast
9:15-10:15 nap
11:00 breastfeed
1:00 breastfeed
1:30-2:30 nap
3:30 breastfeed
4:15 dinner
5:30 bath, breastfeed, bedtime routine
6:00 bed (we always put them down awake and they fall asleep on their own just fine, usually within minutes)
between 6:30-6:40 one or both wake, sometimes just a fuss and back to sleep, often full out crying and needing to be soothed.
Then usually up 1-2 times during the night to eat (going to start night-weaning soon...but they're sick right now, so we'll wait until they're feeling better)

Thank you!!

[Lindsay27]

I think it's possible they are a bit OT - I would try to extend their A time to about 3.5hrs and that should hopefully extend their naps a bit, so something like:

WU 6am
Nap 9:30 - 11
Nap 2:30 - 4
BT 7pm

A 13hr day should be ok for now until you start to run into their days getting long which typically happens around 10/11 months as they approach 2-1 territory.

What do you think?

[twinmama2]

Thank you for the suggestion.  We gave it a try yesterday - extended their A time during the day in hopes of longer naps.  They had two 80 minute naps (better than the 60 minutes we usually get!) and they didn't wake after bedtime until 2am when they woke to eat! 
However, they were up pretty early this morning - both were up at 5:30.  I tried to treat it like a night-waking but neither of them went back to sleep.  That threw off the rest of our day and I had pretty OT babies who had a hard time settling for naps (back to 60 minute naps today).  Do you think that has anything to do with the different schedule we tried yesterday?  One of them did wake up 40 minutes after bed time, but it was only a couple minutes of fussing and back to sleep on his own. 
Thanks so much for the advice!  We will try again tomorrow and hopefully get better naps.

[Lindsay27]

It's hard to say really, could just be that the change was a bit unexpected for them.  They still may be a little OT so it may take a few days to catch up.  I would keep trying for a few more days and see what happens and we can go from there   My DS was a chronic EW'er until about 2yr old so I know how horrid those EWs are!  Hang in there!

[twinmama2]

Thank you for your help!  We seem to have conquered the 30 minute wake up!  We've gone a week without any wakings until they're ready for their night feeding.  We've been stretching the time before their naps and putting them to bed no more than 3 hours after their last nap and it's worked like a charm. 
Now it's on to night-weaning.  A sleep consultant suggested that we night-wean by pushing their night feedings back a half hour every night, until they no longer need to feed until the morning.  We started trying that with very little success.  We've been pushing their feedings back a bit each night, and instead of waking later the following night, they wake earlier!  Then we spend a long time in the middle of the night trying to soothe and settle them until it's time to eat (they never go back to sleep until after the feeding, so sometimes they're up for an hour or more before I bf).  Any suggestions?  Am I going about this the wrong way?
Thanks!

[Lindsay27]

Fantastic!! Happy to hear things have been going so well!!

I may have to get some BF eyes on the weaning of the NF.  I bottle fed so when we weaned the night feed at 8ish months I reduced his bottle by an ounce every 3-4 days until he was at 1-2 ounces and then I took it away...so it was a gradual approach for sure.  Perhaps something like that may work though by reducing the amount of time you BF?  Or do you think that would just make them angry?

[twinmama2]

I'm not really sure how to go about night-weaning, but I'll take a look in the breastfeeding forum.  Thanks for the suggestion.

I do have another question about sleep though...

We thankfully have not had the 30 minute wake ups in a long time but in the last week or so they have occasionally been waking about 2 hours after bedtime and also waking very early (like 4am) and having a very hard time getting back to sleep.  Are those usually overtired issues?  If it is, then I'm not sure how to adjust their routine to prevent that.

This is what a typical day looks like right now:
Awake anytime between 4 and 5:30 am, but we don't get them out of bed until 6am
9:30-10:45 nap
2:15-3:30 nap
6:30 bed

Thanks so much for your help!