Author Topic: 9 mo awake 2-3 hrs during night waking!  (Read 751 times)

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Offline BabyY

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9 mo awake 2-3 hrs during night waking!
« on: August 27, 2014, 14:02:12 pm »
I am using PUPD to address a terrible NightWaking issue my 9.5 month old son is having. He has been severely hit by most of the Wonder Weeks and month 8 was a potent mix of WW, separation anxiety, traveling and milestones (crawling, cruising, babbling nonstop, but sadly, he remains a toothless wonder). He was a mess for weeks (clingy, fought bedtime, came awake every 5 minutes) and we rode it out for a while hoping things would put themselves right (he was sleeping 8-10 hr stretches before it and had dropped all nightfeeds except a DF at 10:45). 6 weeks later most of his other issues are sorted but the NightWaking has worsened to the point of him waking up every hour on the dot.

I began PUPD 6 nights ago and he responded really well. He goes to bed easily now, his routine has fallen back into place and over the course of 6 nights, his wakings have reduced from 7-8 to 2-3. But the problems now are:

- he still cannot fall asleep completely independently. When I put him down awake, he either immediately begins to play (though he was yawning during the wind down routine) or he lies there whining and scratching his face till he rolls over and stands up in the crib. I lay him down again and we do a repeat loop. I have to resort to holding him horizontally in my arms till his eyelids begin to droop, and quickly popping into the cot, in which case he falls asleep in a second. Is he waking up because he did not fall asleep independently to begin with? Could you please share some suggestions on addressing this? I also have a thread running on this in the PUPD board and waiting for suggestions there as well.

- The second big problem I have is: After a bt of 7;30 pm, he wakes once around the 60-90 min mark where he is super easy to resettle. He then gives me about a 4 hour stretch (since the last 3 nights) post which he wakes around 1:30-2:30 at which point it is IMPOSSIBLE to resettle. We have tried singing, patting, sshing, PUPD and he will have none of it. He's crabby for about 30-45 mins after which he is wide awake and ready to play. In desperation, I have tried rocking and nursing and interestingly, that doesn't help him settle either. After playing a little with the night light on, he finally tires 2 hours after his wake time and then falls asleep with the lightest of rocking.
    What is going on? Is this normal, perhaps a sleep regression phase that will pass? I am mortally afraid I'm teaching him that night time is play time. Please tell me what to do! I wondered if it was EASY related but he's dropped some day nap sleep recently and seems on par with the sample routines for his age group.

- finally, how should I handle the shortfall of sleep resulting from the long NW? He's happy to extend his second nap of the day but I'm not sure that's such a good idea. On day 4, I pulled up his second nap and let him sleep for 2.5 hrs straight to make up for his NW, still waking him up by 4 pm to stay on schedule, but I felt that he was seriously UT at BT that evening.

A typical day for him now looks like:

6:30: WU
7:00 - BF
8:15 - Breakfast solids
10:00- Nap1 (45-60 mins)
11:00 - BF
12:15 - Lunch solids
2:15 - Nap2 (90 mins, sometimes need to resettle him at 45 min, I try to ensure a total of 2.5 hrs nap time, waking him up by 4 pm latest)
3:45 - BF
5:00 - Dinner solids
7:10 - Bf and wind down with fan for white noise (does not use lovey or paci)
7:30 - in bed and generally asleep
10:45: DF


NWs for last 2 nights:

#1:

BT: 7:25
NW1: 7:55 (PU and was asleep by PD)
NW2: 12:30 (In the excitement of his first long stretch of sleep, I forgot the DF ::)!! Fed him at this point  and he was fast asleep when I put him down)
NW3: 2:30-4:00 (Just wouldn't settle in the cot. Tried rocking, singing, shushing and finally nursing, nothing helped. He started gurgling at some point and then I just let him play in the cot till I saw him yawn. Picked him and he was asleep in minutes).
NW4: 4:30-5:00 (PUPD 2 times)
WU: 6:30

#2:

BT: 7:30
NW1: 9:30 (Rolled him onto his side and shushed, asleep in a few minutes)
NW2: 1:15-3:15 (Repeat of the previous night. Mewled and cried through all efforts of resettling. Wide awake 45 minutes after waking up. Played till 3:10. Picked him up at first yawn and asleep few minutes later).
NW3: 5:00 (Fell asleep within a minute)
WU: 6:20 am

My reading on the forum indicates that playfulness at night generally means UT and a need to lengthen A times but I am nervous about truncating naps any further. He is well established on solids and is a happy, active baby during the day.

Please help! I am a high sleep need individual (do moms count?) and had given myself 2 weeks to sort out the NWs. But honestly, another week like this one and the two of us might just give up on night sleep all together and use our time more effectively, say by fighting crime. Hey Batman, need a hand?

Offline Skadiver13

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Re: 9 mo awake 2-3 hrs during night waking!
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2014, 16:36:03 pm »
Hi hun a few questions.
1. Are you waking him from his first nap (capping) or is he waking by himself? Does he wake happy? You could also be starting the throes of the 2 to 1 nap switch. Is he a LSN or HSN or average sleep needs baby

2. Have you thought about stopping the DF? Could it be disturbing him? My lo and often some lo's can't handle the DF as it disturbs their natural sleep cycle and they never fall back into it through the rest of the night?

3. When he wakes at night if he's happy and playing and not crying do you leave him be? If so what happens?

A few comments:
I lay him down again and we do a repeat loop. I have to resort to holding him horizontally in my arms till his eyelids begin to droop, and quickly popping into the cot, in which case he falls asleep in a second. Is he waking up because he did not fall asleep independently to begin with?

Yes 100%. He's looking for you to be there for him. If he stands up just leave or talk to him and explain it's sleepy time repeating your sleepy phrase but do not lay him down. He doesnt' need you to and it's a game for him because he knows you'll put your hands on him and that's what he wants to fall alseep. But it's not what he needs. So my suggestion is lay him down once and step back or leave the room. If he's never gone down by himself than your goal is to slowly move towards the door over a period of a few days until he lays down on his own and goes to sleep but do not lay him down he needs to do it himself.

I totally hear you in being a HSN mom. I always needed 9/10hrs a night to be a productive human being and I've learned overtime to get 6/7 which stinks but my lo is just a pre-programmed early riser.  You'll get through this. :)
My dreamed for Angel Baby DD (other than dreaded 40min naps) Born 4/30/16
Reflux, MSPI, Love my Spirited,textbook little munchkin DS Born 5/17/2012



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Offline BabyY

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Re: 9 mo awake 2-3 hrs during night waking!
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2014, 18:19:56 pm »
Thank you for the quick revert!

1. I always allow him to sleep as long as he likes for the first nap but sadly, he never sleeps beyond 40-60 mins. He's always been a crappy napper and this is the best we have had since the fourth month growth spurt. He wakes mewling but is happy as soon as the light comes on. He's definitely LSN as he did a max of 10.5 hours when sleeping through the night and I had to work towards giving him a 13-14 hour day. Isn't it too early for a 2-1 nap switch?

2. I planned to drop the DF around month 8 once solids were firmly established. That however is when this mess began and I was having to feed the baby to sleep through many of his unsettled periods. I suspect during this time that some of his milk intake moved to night-time and I will work on dropping the DF as soon as I'm sure he's back on track with his daytime feeds.

3. He always wakes crying and becomes happy 'awake' only after 30 minutes or so. I try to get him back to sleep in the dark while I think there's a chance but leave him to play in the crib with a night light on once he starts gurgling (he wont play in the dark  :().

I hear you on the not laying him back down as I suspected this was the problem. My aim was to do a gradual withdrawal from the room after PUPD worked but I am still stuck in the room. I will act upon your suggestion from tomorrow but could you help me with the following please:

- When I lay him down and leave the room, how do I not turn it into CC? Is there any way I can encourage him to sit back down?
- Do you have any advice on how to compensate for the NWs sleep during daytime? Do I stick to his normal schedule or let him sleep in a little extra?



Offline BabyY

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Re: 9 mo awake 2-3 hrs during night waking!
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2014, 21:25:10 pm »
Does anyone have any words of wisdom for me? We are on day 11 of PUPD and while the number of night wakings have come down, that 2-3 hrs of waking crying and them playing in the middle of the night remains. It is also really difficult to put him back down in the cot after the NW and after sleep deprivation in the middle of the night, I end up bringing him into bed with me.

Something new the last couple of nights - he wants to nurse back to sleep after the long NW and stay nursing through the remainder of the night. I'm not talking nurse off and on, I mean it is impossible to unlatch him. He doesn't have a nursing prop - any ideas on what this is about?

 LO is still a toothless wonder but has had swollen gums off and on for the past couple of months. Is this a phase or teething related? Does anyone have any stories to share? It's been a gruesome month and I could really do with some moral support  :'(

Offline Skadiver13

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Re: 9 mo awake 2-3 hrs during night waking!
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2014, 17:04:53 pm »
Hi hun, are you still laying him down or are you working on geting him to sleep on his own. Until he's an Independant sleeper I'm afraid the NW's may continue. Have you though maybe he could be teething and tried Dream Meds? Also I hate to say it but by brining him into bed is not going to solve the problem. A one off night is fine to combat OT but continuously and it's just going to make it worse. The constant need to want to nurse sounds like Teeth to me. I would give meds maybe 30min before BT and then again give DM in the middle of the night if you can.

With my lo I usually do it about 1am I put it in a syringe and sneak it in his mouth and slowly push down the plunger. He never wakes up.  Some lo's can do it some can't.  But this latest issue sounds pain related and he's wanting to be comforted.
My dreamed for Angel Baby DD (other than dreaded 40min naps) Born 4/30/16
Reflux, MSPI, Love my Spirited,textbook little munchkin DS Born 5/17/2012



**Siobhan**

Offline mommahb

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Re: 9 mo awake 2-3 hrs during night waking!
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2014, 03:04:52 am »
I am having the same issues. I don't see any teeth coming but my little one is waking up 2-3 times a night. I basically do the put-down method and he is responding to it. Sometimes it takes 15-20 min. I only nurse around 11pm and then I just do PD method the other times. Suggestions?  His day looks like this

6am get up
7:30 Eat
8:30-10:00ish nap 1
11:40lunch
1:00 nap
5:00 dinner
7:30 bedtime

* he gets bottles of breastmilk during the day before naps. He is way more interested in food so I am worried he is not drinking enough breastmilk.