20mth - everything haywire at night

[tjn2060]

Hi all,
Hoping you can give some advise on how to go on as I am loosing the will to live this week and can hardly keep my eyes open at work!

DD1 (DD2 due end Nov) has been waking for more than a handful of weeks now in the night, more so over the last 3wks since we had a 2wk break at home with me while childminder was on holiday and we took the opportunity to toilet/potty train (gone really well by the by).
That initial first week we had hysterical crying/tantrums in the night along with EW and assistance on the forum suggest OT in the run up to the break and rear teeth. Resolved OT I believe, as crys now but in a normal way if that makes sense.

this week, 3rd wk - Basically she is now going into cotbed awake @ 7.30pm mark, asleep usually within 10mins.
She will wake 10pm ish and settle quickly if I cuddle her first. Often is pulling at her nappy.
Wakes again 3hrs ish later for 1-1.5hrs (1am). I try so very hard to not cuddle, she will time after time lay down or I lay her down, I have my hand on her back to reassure then remove, we whisper count breaths so she knows I am there, she seems asleep, I whisper I am going to bed and she will wake. We start the laying down process again. 
Wakes again 3hrs ish later for 1-1.5hrs (4am). I will offer water, ask if her teeth hurt and if yes get medicine, I will cuddle once (she'll fall asleep so very quickly) then back into bed. Wakes once in bed. We start the laying down process again. 
We have had to wake her in the morning at 7-7.15am to get to work/childminders.
Currently we fight to keep sleepsuite on on the second and third wakes, will not go in grobag at any time, at 1am or 4am is willing to have a blanket - room is never below 20 deg c.

Naps had been with me easily 2-2.5hrs, looks like the last 2 days with childminder more like 1.5-2hrs.
I can list EASY times for the last 6wks, but I just cannot replicate the very odd days we had good nights sleep to gain another good nights sleep, I cannot see a clear pattern.

I wonder is OT is setting in again with all the night wakings? (I'm OT!)
What would you try for the next week?

[tjn2060]

as an update, DD1 slept through last night - so nice!
We gave her ibuprofen rather than paracetamol last night as suggested in someone elses thread, wether this was the key factor who knows.

Still if anyonw has any other thoughts to keep STTN up, I'm very open to hearing.
thanks,

[Buttonbobs]

Hi there, if the meds made a difference it seems likely that teeth discomfort is playing a part. If teeth are the problem you're unfortunately not really able to "fix" her sleep until the teething has finished.

When my Dd was struggling with teeth, I had a "rule" I applied which was that I would do what she needed to get as much sleep as possible, including meds and including APOP things. Usually once the pain had passed she's go back to her normal sleep patterns. It often meant a bit of sleep training for a couple of days to get back on track but nothing too hard.

Do you feel it is just teething or anything else?

[tjn2060]

She slept through again last night, looks like teeth is the main culprit for the broken sleep.

[Buttonbobs]

Well I'm sorry to hear she's struggling with her teeth but the two better nights is good news

I hope this passes quickly for you x

[tjn2060]

Terrible night again, had ibuprofen again as other nights but took an hr to get her to sleep, she kept shaking her head no to bed. I kept firm and got her to lay down and sleep on her own with me there over her.

Then woke at 11.50pm, fell asleep in my arms but woke immediately as I put her into bed at 12.15am. Lots and lots of crying, at 12.40 I cuddled again but wouldn't have that now. Pointed for water, had a few sips. Pointed to go to our room which I refused so she flung herself on the floor playing with nappy. She calmed enough to get up and walk to our rm. indicated to our bed which I agreed to. Then at 1am indicated she wanted got go to the toilet, she did a wee. Then spent a long time running around between our room and the bathroom.
Finally at 2.10am I gave her a choice, bed with us or her bed - either way she was going to go to sleep. She cried at her bed, so we stuck with ours, we held her tight, counted breaths and at some point she fell asleep - forgotten now what time.
Woke 6.50am, nappy off (dry) quickly at her request and sat her in the loo for a wee. Breakfast has gone in a shot again....

Surly this is more than teeth?

[Buttonbobs]

Are you in the middle of Pting at night?

[tjn2060]

No, only started toilet training 3wks ago.

[Buttonbobs]

It sounds a bit like the developmental change that is PT is affecting her sleep and that also she's perhaps waking and feeling the need to wee and wanting to go in the potty rather than her nappy (like you've been teaching her for the daytime) and this is disturbing her sleep.

A bit like the learning to roll over or learning to sit/stand up developments, which all affect sleep at times.

What do you think?

[tjn2060]

Not a good evening so far,.... 2 45mins naps today, in bed for 7pm and falling asleep in my arms so very ready for it. Still awake 8.10pm and we've had 2 cuddles to almost asleep point again, thrashing each time, I've held her in a vice like grip and whispered to get her to calm. In bed again and hand on her til asleep, let go and she crys all over again. Just done 8mins of Wi/wo as she is now lying down, still screaming.

[Buttonbobs]

Is she still taking two naps each day normally or was that's one off? They seem like UT naps but that over the course of the day could also lead to tiredness. What was your EAS today?

[tjn2060]

No she would normally have 1 long nap, a loud bang woke her, really bad luck after the night waking as well.

She actually slept through last night as it happens, woke at 5.30am, did manage to cuddle her back to sleep quite quickly but then woke herself with a coughing fit! That was it. We did nappy off, loo, dressed & down for breakfast @ 6.30am.


EAS for last 4days:

Thur 28th (slept night)
WU 7.15am. 6hrs A
Nap 1.10-2.45pm. 1.5hrs S
BT 7.30pm. 4.75hrs A
S 11.75hrs
Total A 10.75hrs, S 13.5hrs

Fri 29th (slept night)
WU 7.10am. 5.25hrs A
Nap 12.30-2pm. 1.5 hrs S
BT 7.40pm. 5.5hrs A
Slept 11hrs
Total A 10.75hrs, S 12.5hrs

sat 30th
WU 5.55am. 5.25hrs A
Nap 11.15-1pm. 1.75hrs S
BT 8.40pm (started 7.30pm) 7.5hrs A
S 3.5hrs
NW 11.50pm-2.30am ish 2.5hrs A
S 4hrs
Total A 15.25hrs, S 9hrs

sun 31st (slept night)
WU 6.50am. 4.5hrs A
Nap 11.40-12.20 (in van) 0.75hrs S
4hrs A
Nap 4.15-5.05pm  (in van) 0.75hrs S
BT 8.10pm (started 7.05pm) 3hrs A
S 9hrs
Total A 11.5hrs, S 10.5hrs

Mon 1st
WU 5.30am. 5.5hrs A
Nap 11-1pm (had to put her down falling asleep eating snack, I woke her at 1pm). 2hrs S
BT 7.30pm 6.5hrs A
Total A 12hrs, S x hrs

[Buttonbobs]

That first day looks quite good, but as you're moving the nap earlier she's sleeping less and less well at night. I would suggest you push back to a 1.10/1pm ish nap again and that should keep the afternoon A time shorter again. It seems you might be starting down a UT/OT spiral so it's best to cut it now and keep that nap later.

Try that for three/four days and see how you get on.

[tjn2060]

Thanks for your thoughts, but....
Are you almost suggesting set naps, regardless of wake up time and keeping her eyes open?

I've update EASY above, but as she woke at 5.30am, was falling asleep eating at 10.50am, I woke her at 1pm, I had planned bed for 6.30pm. Is this sensible?

[Buttonbobs]

Not really suggesting set naps (although they can work well at this age), but more setting things back as they were on a good day. The trouble with early naps is they "tell" LOs that they're going to get sleep again at that time and so they wake up earlier in the morning, the day sleep robbing from the night sleep if you will. You might need a slightly longer A time than previously and if you still at a later nap time then the morning should start a bit later too.