6 month old waking same time at night- habit?

[Newbie mum]

Hi *kellyjs* just wanted to say a big thank you for your great advice. Touch wood, things are going really well after following what you said. She's down to 2 naps a day (with the occasional 30min catch up nap if needed) and is sleeping for at least 2 hours in the afternoon if at home. Her nights are good too, waking for one feed at about 0300 and I am thinking that I might start to reduce the volume of that feed- do you think that's a good idea?
I'd like to preempt the next time she'll need to change her A time or routine and wonder if you could let me know when that might be..what signs should I look out for? Hope all going well with you :-)

[Kellyjs]

That's great news hun, well done you!!

I would only look at reducing the volume of that night feed if she starting to take less and less or become disinterested in her first bottle in the morning. Don't worry, she will tell you in her own little way.. That's when I knew up I had to drop the DF. Even then, I ignored it for a couple of weeks hoping it was just a blip! Then, I started reducing the amount in the bottle by 1-2 ozs every 2 nights until we were down to around 4oz. Then I gave up and went cold turkey!! I did have to make sure I increased the volume she was losing out in the other bottles during the day. I think she was nearly 8mo when we did it.

The signs to look out for when she's needing a jump in A times is the dreaded 45mins nap. And/or playing around in bed before she goes off to sleep. Oh and the yucky cot parties in the middle of the night if the A times have been left too short for too long. I would always wait a couple of days if any of these things happen to see if it repeats itself, then look at increasing the A times by 15mins and holding for 3 days to see if it rectifies itself.

Remember though, short naps can rear their ugly head during teething spells and if ill, that's why it's best to reassess the situation over a couple of days as a jump in A during these times can make them OT.

Here's a good link to have handy, but remember it's just a guide. My DD, for example has always wanted to do A times well over her age! Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!!

[Newbie mum]

Thanks for that. She's taking an oz less of her overnight bottle (which I never thought I'd see as she is a guzzler when it comes to milk!) and will play happily on waking and will want milk about 30-40mins after waking (or I offer then anyway as think she should have some).. Does that sound right? 

[Kellyjs]

That sounds good to me hun. Mine doesn't like milk straight away either which is great as I need a cup of coffee before I'm capable of assembling her straw cup  xx

[Newbie mum]

Hi *kellyjs* do you mind me asking you a follow up question on this thread? Or should I start a new post?
We have been reducing my lo's milk by an ounce every 3 days as you suggested and we were down to 150mls when she stopped wanting it over night :-) Last night was the third night of her not wanting a feed. However, she does wake at the same time she used to for the feed, approx 3am. On the first night of no feed, I had to pick her up, albeit only for a few minutes, dummy in and the straight back to sleep in her cot. Second night, again pick up but literally back to sleep as I picked her up so back in bed asleep within a few seconds. Last night she grumbled and I thought she might not wake but she did, I put the dummy in without picking her up, she went back to sleep only for a few minutes and needed a quick hold again. Each night the attention she needs gets less so hopefully this pattern will continue and she won't wake eventually. What I'd like to check is am I doing this correct as I don't want to add any accidental parenting etc. would you do this when she wakes? Thanks for the reducing regime advice, really hope it continues :-)

[Kellyjs]

I think you're doing just great if the attention she needs is getting less and less. It's obviously just a habitual wu that will just need time. If you can, it might be worth not picking her up and trying a version of ssh/pat or rub in her bed next to see if she settles that way. It's a sort of gradual withdrawal. Well done you in any case!! 

[Newbie mum]

Thanks a lot :-) Last night she didn't wake at that time at all  and hoping for the same tonight. Just shows that it probably was a habitual wake. Again no feed last night. She did grumble 2 or 3 times and because I was sleeping in the same room as her (normally sleep in a different room) I put the dummy back in when she grumbled and she went back to sleep (or maybe she was still asleep when I did it). Doing it this way meant that I had a good sleep too as I was worried she would go on to wake. This was probably not the right thing to do was it? I guess I should have left her to see if she would resettle by herself. The dummy is a question too... It has/is a great help especially when she had a windy tummy but now it looks like this has settled, so now I wonder if she still needs it. It's a difficult decision as she goes back to sleep immediately with it and settles off to sleep with it easily, but on the other hand did she grumble/wake because she missed it? What do you think? She only has the dummy for sleeping. My other thought is to teach her to put it back in, which she can do in the day light, but she sleeps in a 'sleepyhead' nest type bed rather than freely in the cot so not sure how she will be able to find the dummy in the dark of bedtime. Her sleepyhead is inside the cot so I did wonder if I put a roll of eg towel (wrapped so she can't open it) on either side of the sleepyhead so  it would make the height equal (rather than the sleepyhead edge, then lower down the cot mattress) and put some dummys on there? I've also bought one of those bunnies that hold dummies with Velcro paws but she throws the bunny down! Sorry, not sure if any of that makes sense? X

[Kellyjs]

That's excellent! Yay!

It's a difficult one about the dummy. My DD never liked it and found her thumb early on anyway. I'm not too sure what a sleepyhead is I'm afraid, but I do know many people scatter a few dummies around the cot so it's easier for their lo's to find in the middle of the night. That and lots of practising replugging, which is difficult if you only want her to have it for sleep time. Maybe just incorporate it into your A time for 10 mins a day then take it away and give it back at nap and BT?

[Newbie mum]

Hello, good news first..the night feed has stayed away and we have now dropped the mid morning bottle of milk too. Now for the bad news...her sleep has gone aray for the last few nights and I'm not sure why.
She's now 8 months old. Night before last was bad woke at 1am and then after every 1-2 hours. She seemed to wake suddenly with a cry rather than a grumble. I put the dummy back in, turned her onto her side and she went straight back to sleep. Last night similar but I don't think quite as bad.

Would she suddenly develop a prop attachment to the dummy after using it for so many months? Seems strange that this has happened since the feed has gone, could it be related?

I can feel a little sharp tooth on the lower gum, but touch wood she's so far not been bothered by teething and I put the teething liquid on last and the night before just in case.

Have you heard if other babies waking a lot after dropping the night feed? Or suddenly over night developing an attachment to a dummy?
She can putting the dummy in herself in the day time, but at night she opens her mouth wanting me to do it.
Her naps remain good and her EASY too.
Hhmmmm...not sure what to do..

Can I also ask a question off the point....do even the most perfect babies have a bad day? I think my dd is wonderful and very easy to look after in the day...easy to go down for naps, sleeps well. Lovely fun personality, lots of laughs...but yesterday she didn't have an afternoon nap (my fault because we were out) and she was quite grumpy for the rest for the afternoon...I guess all babies have off days?!)

[Newbie mum]

Also to add my lo is a child who likes to be left alone when it's time to sleep. She likes a cuddle as she's picked up from having her sleep suit put on to transferring to the bed, but when she's had enough of me holding her she lets me know! (Just a few minutes) And just wants to be put into her bed to go to sleep alone without me fussing. This makes me think that there must be a reason I haven't discovered for why she's waking as I think she does like her sleep...or perhaps I'm wrong and she is waking for me to come and put the dummy back in? But I always do minimal contact with her and don't speak. Literally walk in, dummy in, on her side and I leave.

[Kellyjs]

I've got one of those independent lo's too so don't worry! Apop has never ever worked in this house, even when she's been ill or super tired.. Of I try and hold her, rock her etc she just goes crazy and wonders what the hell is going on!!

That does sound like teething is at play there hun. Have you tried medicating other than the teething gel? Ibuprofen tends to work best. Out of interest though, that's a lot of milk to drop relatively quickly if she's dropped the mid morning bottle now too. How many oz/ml does she have a day now? I think they should  be having at least 600ml until they're 1yo as milk remains their primary source of nutrition until one. Mine started waking a bit earlier in the morning after dropping the DF but I think that was a routine issue rather than hunger.

Babies can definitely have off days especially when something is different about the day, the nap was missed etc and even teething! My DD was a grumpy little sourpuss during her molar teething. I wasn't expecting it as she wasn't as bad with the others. Well, The first two she was, but not any of the others!!

A dummy can be a prop, but it's up to you if you think she's ready to wean it. Tbh, we never used one so I'm a little unsure about that one. Might be worth having a look on the props board as I think there was a thread about this not so long ago? Sorry, I would look through for you, but I have to run out xx

[Newbie mum]

That's for that. Yes I wish she would sometimes falls asleep on me or let me rock her to sleep like I see other babies do  but she just wants to be put down and left to get to sleep.
I will give the ibuprofen a go, thanks for that.
Milk wise she has 210mls on waking,
Porridge with milk and fruit for breakfast
now a snack of rice cake with cream cheese mid morning,
solids lunch with a pudding (she eats cheese and dairy)
 210mls formula at 3pm. But now she has dropped the mid morning bottle she wants it at 2pm or a little after
Light tea (although she is wanting a bigger tea each day)
7ish 180mls formula as it is the night time formula that is supposed to help sustain lo over night.

Do you think that is ok? Funnily enough I posted the same question on the formula page to check as I too wondered if she has dropped a lot.
I am getting her weighed tomorrow so will be interesting to see how she is doing as the HV suggested I drop some of her milk (at least the night one) as since starting solids and not yet moving she has jumped a percentile line! So I knew she could do without the over night feed. Xx

[Kellyjs]

I see Laura has posted on your other thread so I won't repeat what she says! Xx

[Newbie mum]

Unfortunately, the night wasn't great again. I put the teething solution on and gave some ibuprofen before bed to see if that would help but she still woke several times. Twice she self settled herself back to sleep otherwise we went in and gave the dummy and she immediately settled to sleep. She naps so well, goes down to sleep so well so I just wish I knew why she doesn't sleep all through the night. I did for a split second wonder if I should go back to the night feed as she used to sleep until 3am, have her feed and then straight back to sleep until 7.20ish, but of course, this is not the right thing to do.
The HV today said that she is at the right age for a sleep regression...so I really hope this is just a phase...the lack of sleep is depressing.
I'm going to check tonight but I think she is often (/always) waking at 0050hrs. Do you think I should try wake to sleep? X

[Kellyjs]

Tbh I've found that w2s at night doesn't work so well here if there's a teething issue, wonder week or something developmental going on. You could try though and see. You know your routine is good, so unfortunately it'll be a case of riding this one out. It does normally settle within a couple of weeks or so. Sorry hun x