Author Topic: 6mo- help with Long NW!  (Read 1618 times)

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Offline Kristin.S

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6mo- help with Long NW!
« on: September 17, 2014, 17:15:17 pm »
Hi,
My son will be 6 months next week. He's textbook, generally easy going and good natured. At 4 months, he was sleeping through the night pretty consistently. At 5 months, he started to roll over onto his back (he is a tummy sleeper) and subsequently wake himself up and can't put himself back to sleep because he can't roll the other way. When he wakes at night, I don't feed him, and he stays awake on average 1.5 hrs, usually playing in his crib until the last 1/2 hour when he starts to cry and shh/pat works to calm him and go back to sleep. He's just learned to roll to his tummy, which is very promising for all of us. :) He's been on EASY since he was 3 months and WAS falling asleep more independently but then required more intervention with this rolling over business. I'm just now getting him back to more independent sleep, but he sometimes still needs shh/pat to go the rest of the way. He doesn't use a paci or suck his thumb, EBF, has reflux but is under control with medicine.

I can't seem to find any way to get him to sleep through the night and I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong. I follow the same routine and he sometimes wakes and sometimes doesn't, which is frustrating! Or I'll change the routine and the same thing happens. Here are some examples from this week:

Sun night- regular routine during the day, was up from 3-4:30.
Wake at 6
E at 7:15
A until 8:35
S 2 hrs, up at 10:40
E at 11:15
A until 1:10
S 1 hr 45 min, up at 3
E at 3:15
A until 5:30
S 35 min catnap at 5:30
E at 7
S at 7:30
A DF at 11p

This would seem to be the ideal EASY per Tracy, but Sun night he was up from 3-4:30! :(

Monday night- essentially the same routine except I tried skipping the catnap. He ate at 6:50 and was asleep by 7. Since he ate a bit earlier, he woke up at 10:30 to eat (sometimes he beats me to the DF), but fell back asleep while eating. In spite of skipping the CN, he was awake again on Mon night from 3-4:15!

Tuesday night- no NW with same routine as Sun but shorter 2nd nap. Tues I went back to the regular routine including catnap, since it didn't seem to make a difference at it was hard for him to stay awake that long:
Wake at 7
E at 7:30
A until 9:35
S 1 hr 45 min, up at 11:10
E at 11:35
A until 2:05 (fell asleep at 1:15 for 10 min while I was out)
S 1 hr, up at 3:05, followed by 30min of shh/pat and PU/PD where he cried hysterically for about 30min
E at 3:40
A until 5:15
S 30 min catnap at 5:15
E at 7:15
S at 7:30
A DF at 12am ( I accidentally overslept and he woke me for the DF, but he fell back asleep while eating)

And with this routine, he sleep from 12:15 until 7:20!! So no NW. Could it have been the shorter 2nd nap, the crying from PU/PD, more activity/ stimulation by going out during the day vs staying at home? I can't figure it out!

Per Tracy, you should avoid feeding them in the night, which I haven't been doing, and up calories during the day. I try to get him to eat as much as possible and he's started solids last week, which hasn't seemed to make any difference in his sleep yet. Any guidance or advice is much appreciated!

Thanks,
Kristin



Offline Kristin.S

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Re: 6mo- help with Long NW!
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2014, 02:12:34 am »
Quick update: yesterday he had basically the same routine as Tues, started first feed at 7:30a and was asleep by 7:10p. He had one 2 hr nap and one 1.75hr nap, and we skipped the catnap, so he was very tired by the time he ate at 6:30. DF at 11. He woke briefly during the DF but quickly fell back asleep, and slept until 6:15, so no 3a NW!! Yay.

Again, I'm struggling to find any consistent pattern in the daytime routine that leads to him sleeping through the night, though I'm thrilled he's now done it 2 days in a row. Any guidance or anything that stands out in his EASY? Thanks for your input!

K

Offline Kellyjs

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Re: 6mo- help with Long NW!
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2014, 12:13:08 pm »
Hi hun, sounds like he's ready to drop that CN I think. All about the 3-2 transition- 5/6 months

I would continue on that Tuesday routine if you can? Let me know how it goes x



Offline Kristin.S

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Re: 6mo- help with Long NW!
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2014, 16:19:08 pm »
Thanks for your reply! I think you are probably right...he just gets so sleepy by the end of the afternoon that I feel bad stretching him out that long! Yesterday I did a quick 20min catnap and that seemed to work well because he was still able to fall asleep at 7. It also depends a bit on the day...if he starts E later (7:30 vs 7), then everything pushes back and it's easier for the CN to get squeezed out. But if he wakes early (say 6a) and eats at 7, he can't really extend his A time from 3p to 6:30p for his last feed. I'll keep working on it, and I'll post a 3-2 question I have on that board. Thanks! K

Offline Kellyjs

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Re: 6mo- help with Long NW!
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2014, 18:06:28 pm »
A few EBT's will help see you through until you can stretch those other two A's before the naps. It doesn't matter too much if the last feed is slightly earlier x



Offline Kristin.S

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Re: 6mo- help with Long NW!
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2014, 07:37:53 am »
Hello!
So we've effectively dropped the afternoon CN and now my LO is taking 2 long naps a day (usu one is 2 hrs and one is 1.5 or 1.75). Unfortunately he is still having very long NW! :( Last night he was up from 2:30-4 and tonight from 10:20-12:10 (he woke just prior to the DF and didn't fall back to sleep after eating at 10:30). It's exhausting to be up this entire time. He is generally content but noisy..practicing his vocals or doing various acrobatics in the crib. He gets lots of practice and interaction during the day. I dont feed him after the DF, and he generally goes back to sleep eventually and sleeps until 6 or 7. No signs of teething yet.  I'm at a loss as to what to do, and need help!

I wait until he cries before going in, then he quiets down and is content/playful while I'm in the room. He tries to engage/make eye contact, which I avoid (I sometimes lay on the floor next to his crib so I'm out of sight, which worked better when I had the crib bumper up. I had to remove it because he started pulling on it, so now he can see me when I'm in the room).  He's also still basically hooked on shh/ pat, so no matter how tired he gets, I almost always end up having to do some shh/pat because he'll cry or fuss without it. It works to put him to sleep at the end of the period when he finally gets tired, but is useless during the rest of the activity time. Do you think he's getting too much daytime sleep, even after dropping the CN? Guidance appreciated!

Kristin

Offline Kellyjs

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Re: 6mo- help with Long NW!
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2014, 11:59:56 am »
Well done dropping the CN.

It does sound like he's having too much daytime sleep with that cot party doesn't it? Would you mind posting your easy so I can take a look to see where we can tweak it?



Offline Kristin.S

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Re: 6mo- help with Long NW!
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2014, 17:09:44 pm »
Hi, thanks for your reply.
He seems to be sleeping the recommended amount during the day (3.5-4 hrs) after dropping the CN, and he's always slept well for his naps (rarely does only 40min naps). Here is a typically EASY now that we've dropped the CN:

7:30- wake and BF
8:30- solids
9:45 or 10- first nap (1hr20 min to 2hr10min long, usu 2hr) if he wakes at 7am, I stretch the A to this time. If he wakes at 6a, he'll go down for first nap by 8:45 or 9.
11:45- wake and BF
2:15 or 2:30- second nap (usually 1hr20min, depending on first nap; at least 1 hr; sometimes shh/pat at 40min mark to extend nap, which generally works)
3:50- wake and BF
5- solids
6:15- bath
6:30- BF
7- asleep for the night (sometimes awake until 7:30, but rarely now that we've dropped CN)
11- DF

I have tried to stretch his morning A time a bit, but he gets really fussy and after a certain point he really just needs to go to sleep. I usually walk around with him outside before putting him down and he'll stop fussing/crying when I do that, but any other activity and he'll get upset. He usually falls asleep fastest for this morning nap, in about 5min..at most 10.

Let me know if anything stands out. Not sure if I should start waking him from his naps early vs. letting him sleep? Also, what should I do during his NW? Stay in the room or leave? Shh/pat or let him work it out and eventually fall asleep? My husband has a lower threshold for his crying than I do, and lots of crying disrupts everyone's sleep, but let me know what you recommend and if I need to let him cry more for a period of time (while in the room, not CIO) before jumping in to shh/ pat. We had a brief period when he was about 4mos old where he could put himself back to sleep when he woke (some crying but didn't escalate to the point of needed intervention), but he hasn't been able to do it for a while now. 

Is it unreasonable to expect him to go for 11 or 12 hrs at night at his age? Not sure if 7-8hrs is considered a good stretch, with one NW just normal for a 6mo. Really hoping to get some consecutive sleep back!

Thanks!
Kristin




Offline Kellyjs

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Re: 6mo- help with Long NW!
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2014, 11:59:56 am »
I would've said to stretch that first A as many are doing around 3hrs at around this age, but you're getting a really decent nap there so I wouldn't change it unless you're getting emw consistently.

I would stretch that second A to 3hrs though, as it looks like he's a tad UT.

Otherwise I think I'd cap both naps at 1hr 30mins, wdyt? It may be that his sleep cycle is 40mins hence the 1hr 20mins naps.

I do think you'll have to stretch that first A eventually, but maybe see how it goes capping both those naps for a week? The problem will be is that now your day will be shorter, but hopefully with extending that second A by 15mons that should help, and maybe adding 15mins onto the first one too in time?

Wrt the NW, I would leave to see if he settles himself if he's not doing his 'I need you cry'. You said he's mostly babbling when he wakes? I would leave him in that instance. Don't worry, no one here is ever going to suggest CIO. I would continue with the ssh/pat only when he's crying, stop when he's not, go to leave the room, but return to him if he starts up again. Rinse and repeat I'm afraid. I'm really hoping with capping those naps he may stop these cot parties for you, but it may take a few days to see the difference x



Offline Kristin.S

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Re: 6mo- help with Long NW!
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2014, 16:21:26 pm »
Thanks for these suggestions! I'll give them a shot and see how it goes. This morning he was up at 6 (after also being awake from 10:30-12a again, unfort) so I stretched his morning A to 3hrs and he actually did fine with it..put him down at 8:50 and he was asleep at 9.

I'll try capping both his naps at 1.5 hrs. I did enjoy getting my own morning nap in while he slept for 2hrs in the morning, but I'd prefer to sleep at night so if I can get this right, hopefully I won't need a nap.

For the NW, I'll try leaving the room. Thus far I've stayed in the room. Last night I more or less fell asleep in the chair next to his crib and periodically shh-ed from the chair when he fussed, and that actually worked and he drifted to sleep on his own without the patting, so that was good.

How would you define the 'I need you' cry? He does a lot of the low level, kind of whining cry that eventually escalates, and I usually go in during that first crying before it gets worse. He is not a big crier in general. Should I leave him a bit longer?

 I'll keep you posted!

Offline Kellyjs

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Re: 6mo- help with Long NW!
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2014, 18:18:57 pm »
It's a difficult one as you know your LO best, for mine I know if the whining goes on more than a minute, it's best if I go in and resettle her from the get go as it's easier. If you find doing the same is best, I'd continue as you are.

You might not get so far as leaving the room hun, it's a case of starting towards the door, then coming back if he needs you. I'll post a link about it in a mo but usually it's for toddlers, so you'll have to adapt it slightly. It worked well here as, 1. I couldn't bend over the cot bed for ages as my back was going to give out, and 2. I felt then she knew I'd be back if she needed me but I wasn't supposed to stay in there all the time iykwim?

That's great about the first A btw! Brilliant! Just bear in mind you'd like to keep to a 12-hr day at absolute max on those 2 x 1.5hr naps and I think it should help.

I should say I'm away for the weekend, but back Sunday afternoon so I'll check in tomorrow am, but otherwise I won't be around sorry x

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« Last Edit: October 03, 2014, 18:21:55 pm by Kellyjs »



Offline Kristin.S

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Re: 6mo- help with Long NW!
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2014, 01:41:24 am »
Thanks for your help! I'll let you know how the weekend goes. Today he did one 1.5hr and one 1.75hr nap with no catnap. Poor guy was so tired that he fell asleep at 6:25 during his last feeding, since he woke from his last nap at 3 and got up at 6am this morning. We'll see how the night goes...fingers crossed!

Kristin

Offline Kristin.S

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Re: 6mo- help with Long NW!
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2014, 21:13:33 pm »
Hello! Just a quick update: Friday night was a rough one, with a very long NW and then another long wake up at 4:30, but both Sat and Sun nights went well. Both nights had short wake ups but he was able to settle himself and go back to sleep, which is great progress compared to our usual hour and a half NW. I've started leaving the room, which works most of the time and I think reduces his distraction. So far so good, thanks for your help. I'll be back on if we have any more problems, but for now it seems the two 1.5-1.75 hr naps are working well for him. Thanks!! Kristin

Offline JDeMelo

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Re: 6mo- help with Long NW!
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2014, 17:55:27 pm »
I'm following along on your thread, as I have a little guy who just turned 6 months and this sounds like us word for word (except the reflux)! Have you seen any progress over the past few weeks? How did you deal with the flipping from tummy to back? Did he eventually just learn to flip himself back? We are having those long night wakings and he is also a tummy sleeper and gets himself onto his back and then chats and babbles for so long. We go in and flip him over every so often, but he just pushes himself back onto his back. I've tried doing pu/pd at some naps to teach him to sleep on his back, but he just gets so angry and then I finally put him on his tummy and he's out like a light!

Offline Kristin.S

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Re: 6mo- help with Long NW!
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2014, 05:17:16 am »
Hello! Sorry to hear you are going through the same thing... it's frustrating when they just seem to be awake forever! I wish you luck in teaching him to turn back over. We had two issues- one was the NW, which I think was related to too much sleep during the day, and the other was flipping onto his back, which I think was just a temporary developmental period. Once he learned to flip back over and we adjusted his daytime sleep, we didn't have as many long NWs. We practiced rolling over during play time and I would also practice with him in the crib when he was in a good mood (not when trying to get him to sleep). It took him a couple weeks to figure it out. I gave up on trying to get him to sleep on his back... I think he's only done it twice total since he started sleeping on his tummy at 3mos. I definitely did my fair share of PU/PD, which is tough because they get so upset, but it's worth it to teach them how to sleep on their own and it gets easier if you stick with it.

Things are going well with my son on the sleep front now. It's been close to 2 months since this post and he is sleeping through the night most nights (we still have the occasionally wake up but usually not for so long).  Dropping the time on the daytime naps really helps.  Last week I let him sleep both daytime naps for 1hr45min and he was awake for an hour and a half that night!

I'd like to say that once you tackle rolling back over, it will be smooth sailing, but there always seems to be something new around the corner! :) Once my son could pull himself up, he became obsessed with standing up in his crib. He now stands up within 10 seconds of waking up, even before he's fully awake! It's also tough to get him settled for his naps because he wants to stand up and walk around the crib instead of sleep. And then there's teething, which can also disrupt sleep. So, one day at a time...I wish you the best! :)

Happy to help if you have any other questions! Kristin