12w old A time 1.5h not enough?

[Buttonbobs]

Hi,

The day you posted, was that second nap two hours long? That was a long A after a shorter first nap - perhaps she needs a really long A time for her age?

Do you try anything to resettle when she wakes up at the 50 min/1 hour point?

[obladi]

Normally I would watch to see what I should do, if she looks sleepy I give her a few mins to see if she can settle herself, then I would give her a paci, shush pat or even put her in the bouncing chair, most of the time doesnt work. Sometimes I put her on the breast, worked!

Do you think my LO is having short sleep patten or something? Yesterday was like this:
W:7:04
S:9:00,
W:9:45, extend 2 times and each time slept for another 5 mins

W:10:28
S: 12:05 - I put her down at this point as she was sleepy and started to be a bit fussy

W: 1:05, tried to resettle with all the bla bla, same like the morning back to sleep for another 5 mins, resettle again and slept for 10 mins
W: around 2pm
S: 3:20
W: 3:50

BT: 5:20
DF: 11:00pm
Night waking: 6:40pm, 3.40 am, 4:20 am and 5:20 am

Feeding was a bit crazy as well, basically I aim for 3.5 to 4 hours between the A time. When she waked up and 6:20 I fed her as she didnt take the full feed after the bath. During the night she waked up I gave her paci but then she didnt sleep very weel so 5:20 I fed her again.

We have a few days like this already, a bit of a mess!

[obladi]

oh BTW, there is 1 day after the first short naps in the morning she felt asleep after 1 hour and slept for 3 hours. But it only happened that day

[obladi]

Naps is getting shorter, I am not sure increasing A time is the solution anymore, for the last 2 days naps were all 40 mins. Extend with paci and shush pat or bouncing chair no longer work, I have to carry her and shushing patting at the same time.
w: 6:47
S: 8:47
W:9:30
S:10:00
W:10:48

S:12:40
W:1:25
S: 2:05
W:2:42

S:4:54
W:5:23

Bath and Bed at 7:00pm. DF 11pm and night wake 4am, 5am,6am

[Buttonbobs]

Ok, I agree it probably isn't helping at this point.

Are you always holding off feedig until 3.5-4 hours? Some BF babies don't manage this long until they are settled on solids. Is it possible she needs a bit more feeding? There are quite a lot of growth spurts around this age?

[obladi]

When the nap is good i normally go for 4 hours. When naps are bad sometimes 3 to 3.5 depending on how long she naps. She normally doesnt have problem with that. Yesterday even worse, all naps were 30mins and she ended up OT around bed time and cried badly.

Im thinking of a shorter A time today. Maybe she is having a problem of connecting sleep cycle. If it is, what do u think I should do?

Thanks.

[Buttonbobs]

Do you shorten the A time if you get a short nap? 30 min naps are. Sign of OT so I agree you need to rein that A time back in again.

What's your wind down like for naps and BT? Do you normally put her down drowsy but awake and let her doze off on her own? Is she swaddled?

[obladi]

Yes I normally put her down drowsy but awake. She used to be swaddled but now we changed to sleeping bag instead. At first we removed one arm and then the second.

10mins before nap time I take her into her room, do a quick maggage and rub her back, pull the curtain then put her on her sleeping bag. BT is maggage, bath, then I sing for her then put to bed.

Yesterday we have a perfect nap day and BT. A time was abt 1.50mins. However it did not work again today Im so confused!

[Buttonbobs]

Can you post your two days for me - both yesterday and today.

Thanks

[obladi]

Yesterday:
W: 6.11
S: 8.05

W: 10.25
S: 12.15

W: 2.25
S : 4.15

W: 4.55
BT: 6.14 DF: 11.00pm

Today:
W: 6:00
S: 7:55

W: 8:55
S: 10.50

W: 11.20
S: 13.30 (went into bedroom at 1pm, so sight of sleepiness, then fall asleep but did not get cranky)

W: 14.15
S: 16:10 (tried shorter A time but did not work)

[Buttonbobs]

Ok, looking at this that first day was great. On the second day the same A time got you a shorter nap. It might have been that she was so well rested from all those brilliant naps that she actually needed a bit longer awake first. Are you watching for tired cues at all or following the clock? I know with my DD it became harder to follow cues around this age but still worth seeing if you can spot things.

so you got a shorter first nap. Then you kept the A time full length and got a half hour nap. This is typical OT, so I would say if you get a shorter first nap again you should shorten the second a time - possible 1 hour 30/40 mins A, you'll need to play around and find out what works, but it will need to be shorter or she'll be OT when going down for the second nap. Was there any chance of resettling her with shh/pat after that 30 min wake up? Or was it impossible to resettle her?

The third nap was again a short one (although slightly longer) and then you said you tried after that shorter nap to shorten the A time - what did you try? Perhaps it was too short.

How did you get on today?

[obladi]

Hi,

I normally look for tired cues, but I agreed with you that day I was more or less looking at the clock as I believe that it would happen the same like the day before

Thanks for what you said, for the last week I stop watching the clock and look more carefully for tied cues, however it was very much on and off. as usual I have 1 good day in a week and the rest is screwed.

It brought me to another concern that my LO can not transit between sleep cycle at the moment. Her A time is up to 2 hours now and she was absolutely tired enough when I put her down, naps are still 50 mins to 1 hour.

I normally give her a paci for bed time and nap time. I was wondering if this could be a problem or not. I really dont want to use CIO to teach my LO to sleep but without the paci, she will cry.I guess now she is more alert so when she wakes up from a sleep cycle she realizes that she needs the paci, she wont go back to sleep again. That is my guess only because lots of my friends using paci to help their babies to fall asleep and they did not face any problem like mine.

I would like to stop giving her the paci to see if the naps getting better or not but I dont know what is the best way to do it except CIO. I know this is no longer belong to EASY topic and I should have posted this question on Sleep Issued but after consideration I would like to put it on here first. Do you have any advice for me?

Thank you.

[Buttonbobs]

Hi honey, it is only CIO if you are leaving her alone. If you want to wean the paci then there are more gentle ways to do it, and that would be using pat/shh and pu/pd. These methods may include crying but if you are there then the crying doesn't lead to the same anxiety reaction in children that we are not promoting here. It may well be hard on you, but by being there you are really being reassuring.

Have you read this:

Props vs Comfort items. Whats the difference? it might help you decide whether or not to really get rid of the paci.

And this is another route you could take:

Gentle Removal Plan

What do you think?

[obladi]

Yes i just read the book again abt PU/PD, will try it today. Thank you.

[Buttonbobs]

Good luck - let me know how you go xxx