Author Topic: Easy for my neice  (Read 1845 times)

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Offline Aishi

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Easy for my neice
« on: September 28, 2014, 18:42:24 pm »
She's 5 mo and currently visiting us with my sister who has asked me to get her on easy and sleep train  ::) ::)

I don't have much experience with breast fed babies so would love some eyes on this....she was doing 90 min awake time and 45-90 min naps  which according to FAQ pages is very young baby easy. Also having several nws and a fts prop.

They've been here a few days and we've got rid of fts prop and I've been using ssh pat to calm her. She usually finishes off falling asleep herself with me in the room. My sis wants a 9.30-9.30 routine. This is last few days easy...she feeds every 3-4h and is cutting first tooth...sister doesn't want to medicate for teeth...

Wu 9.30
Nap 11-12.35
Nap 2.10-3.55
Nap 5.45-8
Bt 9.30
Nf 1.30, 5.30

Wu 9.20
A 2h
Nap 11.15-2
A 2h
Nap 4-6.30
A 2h20
Bt 8.50
NF 1,5
Nw 5-6 ss

Wu 8.50
A 2h10
Nap 11-2 we woke
A 2h20
Nap 4.20-6
A 2h
Bt 8 aiming for today

So questions are how is her routine looking for last two days? Why is she taking so long to sleep at 5-6 am feeds? Is that it and if so where? Is she having enough day sleep?

Tia!!
aishi :)

Offline michaeljacknnugg

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Re: Easy for my neice
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2014, 19:38:27 pm »
I've no idea for a baby that young but just wanted to say well done you! Real live baby whispering to kids other than your own is hard!!
My 'little man' - kind-hearted Spirited whirlwind, 2008
My love, my everything - BabyTwo, Nov 2015

Offline creations

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Re: Easy for my neice
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2014, 10:12:15 am »
Wow Aishi how cool of you to do this, esp when you've been working on your own DS's routine too - go girl!

I'd say just keep going as you are with increasing the A time. The day naps are pretty long (how I wish I'd had those at 5 months!) but really you'd need to see where you are at once the A is up a bit more because LO could be long napping due to the A time increase and trying to catch up with that processes of the routine changing.
Assuming you were asking if there was a bit of UT at the 5-6 NW, possibly but I wouldn't read too much into it as it's not a settled routine, that just a really hard time of night to get back to sleep.
When the A times stretch a bit more and with those lovely long naps the BT should be able to move a bit later again more towards the 9.30pm routine your sister prefers.


Offline Aishi

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Re: Easy for my neice
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2014, 10:32:06 am »
Thanks creations. I've had so much help with my los sleep from fellow bws. I'm glad for having the chance to do it for someone else :)

Ok couple of other things: with the ssh pat dn has started to cry when sis tries ssh pat during nws but if she leaves her she will fall asleep herself but it takes an hour ???


So yest easy was

Wus 8.50
Nap 11-2 we woke
Nap  4.20-6
Bt 8 was aim but took till 8.50
We think that was hunger as we shifted feeds from 3 to 4 h so sis is going back to 3h feeds (I have no exp of this so can't advise!)

Then nights was

N feed 12.30 self settled to 1.30
Nw 3.30 ssh pat few mins
N feed 6.50 self settled at 8.35
Wu 10.15

So would you start day as 6.50 (which means morning a was only 1.5h) or treat it like a nw seeing she had a 8.50 bt and sis wants a later wu and night?
aishi :)

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Re: Easy for my neice
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2014, 18:33:31 pm »
with the ssh pat dn has started to cry when sis tries ssh pat during nws but if she leaves her she will fall asleep herself but it takes an hour
If she is not crying or calling for help then I'd leave her to SS. If she eventually winds herself up into needing help then use the shush/pat. Tracy did mention LOs can have long NWs and this is normal, let them be if they are quiet and not calling, although of course we always look at the routine too see if there is a reason which can be tweaked. But sometimes they are just happy to hang out and have those amazing developmental thoughts. If you try to force her to sleep with shush/pat she might be annoyed by it or NWs could become a bit of a problem with her needing more help instead of SS.

We think that was hunger as we shifted feeds from 3 to 4 h so sis is going back to 3h feeds (I have no exp of this so can't advise!)
Tracy sis say some LOs don't make it to 4hr E until 6 months, she mentioned low birth weight or prem babies as example. Mine was neither low nor prem but absolutely could not go beyond 3hr feeds until he was 6 months with solids meals between.
Perhaps she'd like to try a 3.5hr E?  There are examples in the FAQs.

So would you start day as 6.50 (which means morning a was only 1.5h) or treat it like a nw
I'd treat as a NW. I'd also get her up earlier.  If you want to set a routine then I would wake her at 9.30am. If she's had a long NW then maybe leave her 15 mins longer but it will take longer to establish the routine and you don't really want her in the habit of long NWs and then sleeping late. I'd also judge the NWs based on crying or quiet - if very disturbed crying I'd give a lie in (even up to 30 mins for a really bad long crying NW) but if she is just chilling out with minimal fussing and just awake then I'd get her up on time and get the day going.


Offline Aishi

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Re: Easy for my neice
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2014, 19:16:53 pm »
Thank you again creations you're always helping me! :-*

I'll pass on your advice to my sis- it makes a lot of sense to leave her at nws if she is ss....

The other thing is that at naps she has started to cry with ssh pat even with me ??? Not sure why? Its day 5 of ST. And she was hysterical at BT but also clearly ot...I had to rock her till calm and then pd but repeated for 20 mins before she finally fell asleep. Its like she hates ssh pat cos she knows its sleep time but is tired at same time ???

Today's easy was

Wu 10.15
Nap 12.35-3.10 sis had to rs at 30 min so dn was ot...
Nap 5.10-5.50 ot? Didn't rs
Bt 8 or should that be nap? She woke at 8.30 and had to be apoped to sleep after 9...

Im getting a bit confused now lol

ETA when lo is clearly ot is it ok to apop to sleep (not fts) or should we try to get her to ss?
« Last Edit: September 29, 2014, 20:19:20 pm by Aishi »
aishi :)

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Re: Easy for my neice
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2014, 20:59:06 pm »
YK I suspect she is actually UT rather than OT.
Mine used to wake early in a nap if he was put down too soon, I know it's confusing because same.similar happens with OT but she's still on short to average A times for age so I would be really hesitant to reduce her As at all. Is she only just 5 months or closer to 6 months?
That second nap really does look UT, only 2hr A after that huge nap (wow she is a napper hey!?) I'm not surprised she wasn't tired enough to transition to a second sleep cycle tbh.
I'd prob go for 2hr 30 first and second A times (you did 2hr 20 on the second A the other day seemed fine but today only 2hr A) and would expect the second nap to be longer which will help you get closer to BT.

ETA when lo is clearly ot is it ok to apop to sleep (not fts) or should we try to get her to ss?
There's really no rule. Tracy's own examples showed keeping LO up a full A time even after a failed nap to really work on the routine and independent sleep but yk here we are generally less strict because we all know our limits and how hard it is to continue every day/night when it's a tough phase. I think I'd APOP if she is really distressed or in pain, I think you mentioned teething...


Offline Aishi

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Re: Easy for my neice
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2014, 08:29:04 am »
She's 5m 2wo tomorrow. Last night she woke at 8.30 and was upset at first but then played till 11.15!! She then had NF/nw at 2,4, 6.30- 8.15 at which she cried but eventually ss. Does this sound like ut or teeth? Her first tooth is moving but hasn't broken through skin yet....

Also could trying to have 9.30-9.30 routine be messing with things cos it's against natural body clock?
aishi :)

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Re: Easy for my neice
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2014, 09:51:51 am »
Could be both UT and/or teeth.
I'd be tempted to think teeth and medicate before BT but you say your sister is not happy with this?
When teething is in question it is never easy to work out a routine. She might have been playful at the NW because (after initially crying) playing is a distraction from the pain.

If she's always done 9.30-9.30 or similar I don't see any problem with it. There is a train of thought that a LO's sleep window comes much earlier than this, but there are cultures/countries where later BT and WU are the absolute norm, maybe those kids didn't read the book.


Offline Aishi

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Re: Easy for my neice
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2014, 12:50:42 pm »
I think you're right wrt to ut... She woke at 9.10 (after a pretty disrupted night) I tried to pd for 11.20 with ssh pat and she was hysterical :-/ so I sang songs and then rocked till drowsy and pd and patted until she closed her eyes. Is that still ss or am I putting her to sleep?

She woke whinging/crying at 1.05 after 1.5h but I rocked till calm and pd and she went back to sleep by 1.15...any ideas what that was??

Also what is the longest nap length we should give and how much a time after it?? I was thinking 3h and at least 2.5h a time...or would you increase a more?

Thanks again!!
aishi :)

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Re: Easy for my neice
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2014, 13:11:04 pm »
I tried to pd for 11.20 with ssh pat and she was hysterical
Well, it's hard to judge when you're not there but to me it sounds like she's not ready for the nap. I prob take her out the room and try again 10 or 15 mins later.  I could be totally wrong of course but it sounds to me like she'd manage a 2.5hr A and then do a great nap but is complaining at a 2hr 10 min A time. What do you think?

Is that still ss or am I putting her to sleep?
Well, you've helped but but sounds like she needed it and it's still a step forward from feeding to sleep so I wouldn't worry.  When mine was teething he always needed help to settle even though he was an independent sleeper.

I was thinking 3h and at least 2.5h a time.
3hrs is a really long nap. I would do at least 2.5hr A after it. As she hasn't done longer than 2.5hr yet I'd be too cautious to recommend longer but if you feel she can do longer (and she may well after a super long nap) then sure.

if she loves that long nap then the day might look something like:
WU 9.30
A 2.5
S 12-3
A 2.5
S 5.30 - 7.30
A 2
BT 9.30

but look at that third A time, it's short, mine would love that but not all LOs do. Some need a longer last A or the night is off.  In which case you might need to cap one of the naps to find more time in the day. Either cap the first to 2.5hr or the second to 1.5hr ...I'd look for a natural stir in her light sleep and wake her then.

She woke whinging/crying at 1.05 after 1.5h but I rocked till calm and pd and she went back to sleep by 1.15...any ideas what that was??
could be teeth. Mine used to wake like this if he was UT though, always looked OT but it was UT, only proved by a longer A time and the crying nap WUs stopping.


Offline Aishi

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Re: Easy for my neice
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2014, 16:53:24 pm »
That looks like a good routine. She's done ok today very similar to the routine you posted

Wu 9.20
A 2h25
Nap 12.35-2.15 rs at 1.05
A 2h30
Nap 4.45 rs at 5.25 dyt that was ut again after the long am nap?

aishi :)

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Re: Easy for my neice
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2014, 17:46:13 pm »
Might have been, it's a 40 min WU again.  Could also be teeth as she comes into lighter sleep they bother her.
I'd prob do both morning and afternoon A of 2hr 30 tomorrow and see how it goes.
x


Offline Aishi

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Re: Easy for my neice
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2014, 20:39:18 pm »
So shes had great naps and a times today...

Wu 9.10
A 2.5h
Nap 11.35-2.15
A 2.5h
pm nap 4.45- 6.30
A 2.5h
Bt 9

Sis agreed to meds before bt to eliminate pain as reason for nws :D

One other question when dn wakes crying in motn sis pats her and if she doesnt settle sis gives her a feed and dn gets drowsy and pulls away after bf on one side so is that still feeding to sleep?

aishi :)

Offline Aishi

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Re: Easy for my neice
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2014, 08:25:05 am »
Meds didn't make a diff to nws as such so if it's not teething or routine related...could it still be fts prop at night?

This was how night went- she had Nfs but no long nws except first one at 11

Bt 9
NF 11-11.30 full feed and fts
NF 2 drowsy
NF 5 drowsy gave Meds again
Wu 8.10

Should we stick to same routine of 2.5h a for a few days? My sis is going back to my mums today so I won't be able to help with st anymore. Any tips I can give her for nws?

Thanks
aishi :)