Almost 9mo - NW, EWs, A times all over the place....

[Mackjack]

Hi,

DS is almost 9months (am I counting that correctly - he was born 16th Jan so I count the 16th of each month as a month older? With DD I used to count her as a month older every 4 weeks but was told that was wrong).

Anyway, he has STTN for months, BLW, 3 meals a day, 4 hr EASY, 4 bottles a day. He seems to be developing pretty quickly - crawling since 6.5months, cruising at 7mo, now he can nearly stand unaided.

A few weeks ago we had a horrible time where he had tonsilitis then a viral infection then got two teeth. His NWs were awful (screaming for up to 3hrs at a time). There may be some teething still going on here and there but I'm at the point where I now have no idea what his "ideal" A time should be and I'm pretty sure this is messing up his NS and causing NWs. And the past couple of days we're getting EWs. His A times have always jumped really quickly and I only ever seem to have a week or two of stability before his routine needs changing but at the moment he can do anything from 3-4hrs A time, sometimes a bit more.

I'm also wondering if he could be in the very early stages of the 2-1 transition as it's really hard to get a second nap sometimes. I don't know if I should cap his naps, let him have one long one etc etc. Yesterday for example, he was up at 5.25am. He lasted til about 9.30 when I put him down for a nap-  he fussed a bit and I had to go back in to settle him but he ended up sleeping from 9.40 for ages. I was almost going to let him sleep up to 3 hours and see if he was aiming for a one nap day but realised that this would've left me having to put him to bed really early -  about 5pm so didn't want to risk it. So I woke him at 2hrs and in the afternoon he only managed a 2nd nap of 10mins in the pram. So last night he woke at 2am (although I settled him v quickly) but then woke very lively at 5am - he wouldn't settle so we took him into our bed (so annoyed I broke one of my golden rules here!!!) and he fell asleep again eventually at about 5.45/6 for about 45mins/1hr. Thing is, the day before, he had a great night's sleep but fell asleep on the school run after about 3hrs???

Anyway, I'm waffling - here are a few days' EASY - I'm going to go back 4 days as Monday night was AWFUL!! I should say, whenever he wakes at night, I always give meds straight away - just in case it's teeth:

MONDAY
Sorry I don't have timings but I think he just had one nap this day so I put him to bed early
BT 6.10
NW 1am-4am only crying a little bit to start with but it escalated
NW 4.30
NW 5am
Gave up and put in our bed about 5.45to have his milk (he always has his morning milk in our bed) but he fell asleep after drinking it and slept til 6.30

TUES
WU 6.30
S 10ish woke at 45mins, sshed back to sleep, slept another 45 til 11.50. Very grumpy when he woke
S 2.30/40ish - 3.10ish in car and pram
BT 6.50
NO NWs

WEDS
WU 6.10
S 9ish on way back from school run. Transferred to cot. Slept about an hour in total. V happy when he woke.
S 13.25-14.05 v grumpy when he woke
S 18.45 stood up when I left the room so had to go and settle him but he went down fine
No NWS

THURS
WU 5.25
S  9.40-11.40 gave him milk as it had been 4hrs and he got v drowsy but was very lively once put in cot. Left him for a bit then went in and settled him v quickly. Woke him at 2hrs
S 16-16.15 in pram
BT 19.15 really didn't know what time to put him to bed so as he'd had a short nap I went for a 3 hr A time but maybe it should've been shorter? Went down fine
NW 2am - back to sleep v quick
NW 5am - then in bed with us slept another 45mins/1hr as described above
WU 6.45

[Mackjack]

Sorry I know it was a looong post but any suggestions?

[weaver]

Hun, can't post now but want to let you know you've been seen and I will be back later!

[weaver]

Sounds like you had a rough time there with illness...  I've often found that LOs come out the other side of illness having made a bit of a developmental leap (I don't know what the link might be, maybe their immunity suffers when they're developing quickly?) so it is likely that he may now need an increased A time.  I'm afraid our best guess at an average A for this age is 3-4 hours, which is a big window, so you might like to try to pin it down a bit more precisely for your boy.  3 hr 30 might be a good place to start but bear in mind that LOs at this age can prefer shorter or longer As at different times of day.

Looking at the days you've posted, I think it's pretty clear he still does need two naps, but it's all about placing the sleep in the day at this stage.  The thing about 2-1 is that it is a transition, so it can go on for quite a long time, for those who start earlier, it might take longer of tweaking naps and getting the balance right.  I think you probably are right now to start thinking about capping naps, but that just means trimming them appropriately, rather than making them drastically short, iyswim. 

I think Thursday probably shows that 2 hours is too long for an AM nap, so I'd shoot for 1 hr 30 max (with an open mind on trimming it to 1 hr 15 in the near future).  I'm noticing that a few of his naps fall in the pram or the car, I know he probably just dropped off on you on the school run but napping in the cot would be more restorative.  I'd try to get the AM nap definitely in the cot, and be more flexible on the PM one.

Also have a read here:
From 2 to 1 nap transition (10-12m and older)

HTH a bit?

[Mackjack]

Thank you so much.  I agree with everything you said.  Yes unfortunately some naps happen in the car/pram when I really don't want them to - but that's thanks to the school run. He had a great night at grandma's yesterday - I asked her to put him down early  as he had two rubbish naps on Friday and he ended up sleeping 6.15 - 6.10 and then two 1.5 hr naps (I told her to wake him from the second one). He has been a bit whiney today so am wondering if we're in for some teething again.....sigh..
I think one of the problems is that particularly for the afternoon nap for some reason he doesn't really show sleepy signs so he ends up being up a long time and then resists when I finally try to put him down - which I've always thought was him being ut but maybe hes worked up from being ot?.  So do you think I should try to get him down in the afternoon after 3.5hrs even if he's not giving me sleepy signs yet?

[lauradj]

I had pretty good luck with set nap times.  They don't work for everyone but I like to be able to plan out my day.  My DS had his two naps at the same time, every day, regardless of when he woke.  Sometimes he was ridiculously tired by the time it was nap time but he did sleep well!  Just a thought. 

[Martini~]

Regarding afternoon nap - we always had it. DS doesn't show sleepy signs but it doesn't mean he is not ready for a nap. I must say F was resisting afternoon nap for ages, but right now when I want this nap to end before 4/4:30 and I put him down earlier for this nap, he is surprisingly happy to sleep on it even in his cot:). So I would give it a try.

[Mackjack]

Thanks ladies,  that's really good to know.  Think I'm going to have to do something like that - put him down for the afternoon nap even if he doesn't think he wants it!

[Mackjack]

Back again...sigh...

So we had a great week of am naps of about 1hr 20, then short pm naps (think about 40mins max) and then 12 hrs night sleep. But it's all going wrong again and we are still getting random  NWs. In the AM, he just will not sleep more than 1hr25 tops. And then in the PM, his nap usually falls on the school run so it's quite short - but from my experiences in the past few days, I think a long PM nap (anything more than about 30/40 mins) means BT resistance.

The other day, he had a 1hr20 AM nap then as it was the weekend he got to sleep in his cot in the PM and he slept just over an hr. He seemed really grumpy when he woke so I decided to give him just a 3hr A time til BT (7pm). He would not go down. He was messing about but also crying for an hour. Finally got to sleep at 20.15 and woke about 5/5.30.

When he has NWs, I can't figure them out. Sometimes they're very brief, sometimes they go on for 2.5hrs. Last night for example, he went to bed at 18.30 and woke at 22.35. All he wanted was a hand on his back - he would settle and seem asleep so we stayed with him to make sure. Then we'd leave the room and 10 mins later he would wake again. Sometimes when I had my hand on his back, he would seem asleep but then his arm would reach out to play with the cot bar. This went on for an hour and he woke up this morning at 5.45.

Also, at BT sometimes he really messes about although we know he's tired - while we're holding him to get him drowsy to go in the cot, he will shout "Dad, Dad", slap our faces, pull our hair - we don't know if this is UT or OT as sometimes we just plop him in his cot and he will shout a bit then go to sleep and other times he shouts a bit and ends up crying and we have to go back in his room and he won't settle for ages.

So here's a couple of days' EASY:

SUNDAY
WU 5.55 - then eventually fell asleep again in our bed til about 7
S DH could not get him down, he fought  - so he ended up going down about 12 for about 1hr 15. Too late in the day for a second nap so we pushed him til BT (18.05)
No NWs

MONDAY
WU 5.55 - was yawning within an hr
S 9.30ish  - woke after 35 mins and I managed to settle him quite quickly but he only slept about another 40mins til about 11.
S 14.40-15.05 in pram. I was only going to let him have a very short nap but he woke himself
BT 18.30 went down fine
NW 22.30 - 23.30 we were in and out of his room as described above

TUES
WU 5.45
S 9.45 - seemed tired all morning but got a slight second wind so I went with it....still asleep now

I just don't know what I'm shooting for. I know some of you suggested to stick to a 3.5hr A time which is what I do for the AM (he normally lets me know he's tired anyway) but he never does more than 1hr25 (don't know if that's good or not?) but in the PM he only gets a short nap and I don't know whether to try to improve that or not as, as I say, a decent PM nap sometimes means a difficult BT.

It's interesting that on days when we've had to give him a ridiculous PM A time because there's no time for a second nap, he usually sleeps at night really well (but does seem really tired the next day).

I am DREADING the clocks going back...

[Mackjack]

AARGHH!!! The binmen just woke him up!!! I knew it was going to happen - I heard them coming so watched him on the monitor and sure enough, they woke him. So he's had an hour's sleep. Great. I feel so angry!!!

[Mackjack]

So he slept til 10.45. Then his next nap started at 14.45 in the car and continued in the pram. I have to say,  I woke him at 15.15 as I'm so scared of him fighting BT. He went to bed at 18.30, had a NW at 2.45 which took 15 mins to settle and woke for the day at 5.45. I gave him milk in our bed and tried to get him back to sleep but he was having none of it though he must be tired. So now I've got to hope he makes it through the school run without nodding off in the pram. ...

[Mackjack]

Sorry he woke at 5.25 today not 5.45 (those 20mins matter!). And he went down for a nap at 9.25. He woke after 1hr 10 on the dot - which he does quite a lot - what does that sort of length nap mean??

[Mackjack]

Any ideas on these NWs anyone?? We had another one last night.

Yesterday after his 1hr 10 nap, he had an afternoon nap of 40mins in his pram which is longer than usual so I wasn't sure whether to treat it as a "good" nap or a "bad" one.  I opted for a bad one and thought I'd give him a slightly shorter A time before BT (3hrs). He fought so I brought him back downstairs and tried again 30mins later and he went down fine but he woke at 12pm for 30mins and then up for the day at 5.30 but fell back to sleep in our bed til 7am. So EASY yesterday was like this

WU 5.25
S 9.25-10.35 (1hr 10)
S 14.35 - 15.15 (40mins)
BT 19.15
NW 12pm for 30mins
WU 5.30 - came in our  bed for milk and then slept again til 7am. Am pretty sure this is going to mess today up. He's still awake now  (over 3.5hrs later) and seems fine.....?

[lauradj]

Ugh, sounds like you're having a rough go!  Is it possible your DS could be ready to make the 2-1 transition?  Just looking at your previous EASY's, it looks like you're naturally moving towards that.  It took me a solid month to get there when DS was 11months but I know some babies do transition early.  Have you tried W2S?  Are you able to resettle at EW instead of bringing him to bed and feeding him?  I know that there is usually a phase, often during the 2-1 transition, when babies wake unreasonably early (mine included).  I'm just wondering if this is what is going on?

[morvayc]

Just wanted to let you know that I'm in the same boat, and should really be in bed right now, as the LO will likely wake at 4am!  Just trying to keep my spirits up, but really feel like throwing in the towel.  If you want to swap war stories, I'm here