Author Topic: Almost 9mo - NW, EWs, A times all over the place....  (Read 2938 times)

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Offline Mackjack

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Re: Almost 9mo - NW, EWs, A times all over the place....
« Reply #30 on: November 05, 2014, 19:45:48 pm »
Hi Haribo. Thanks for your suppport. Yes, uncapped AM and CN on school run is our usual routine but he never does more than 1hr25 in the AM and usually wakes up miserable.  And we've done super early bedtimes too - well, I say super early, I've never tried anything less than 3hr A time to be honest. Earliest he's been to bed is 5.50pm.

Do we all think the long NWs are definitely routine related or as Weaver says, is it a bit of SA too? Just because the reason he woke last night was because he was wet through from his nappy - but it still took 2hr 15 to get him back to sleep. We've had that before too - waking up because he's wet through and taking ages to get back to sleep. But usually, as I say, he just wakes up for no real reason and takes forever to settle again. Unless it's an early eve WU which are easy to settle.

And if I camp out on his floor, am I in danger of creating a prop? Or is it ok as I'm just reassuring him and making him feel secure that I'm there when he needs me?

Online Haribo2012

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Re: Almost 9mo - NW, EWs, A times all over the place....
« Reply #31 on: November 05, 2014, 20:51:21 pm »
It's prob a bit of everything as like weaver said SA starts at 8 months ish, so he could be waking from a routine issue/teeth/developmental etc but then the SA kicks in.
Sometimes these things just fix themselves and we never really know why.

For us long NW are routine, teeth, or developmental.

It can create a prop but the times we've done it it never has or it just takes a quick cuddle and back in bed once you feel the extra neediness is over. x
Zoe


Offline weaver

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Re: Almost 9mo - NW, EWs, A times all over the place....
« Reply #32 on: November 05, 2014, 20:59:44 pm »
Yup, long NWs for us are teeth or discomfort, where LO goes back to sleep but then wakes again.  The inability to get back to sleep is generally understood as UT so routine related.  But that's a general thing, so you'd need to think how it applies to your LO. 

You might create a small prop with sleeping on the floor but I think if you're not starting out there, then he won't be demanding it, iyswim.  In any case, it will be easier for now than WIWO and get you a bit of rest.  I never had problems with it tbh, because it was a MOTN thing, so once they were sleeping and didn't wake up, it didn't matter :)

Slightly OT but why do you think he flooded his nappy those two nights?  New brand of nappy? Does he need to move up a size? 

Routine-wise I would suggest that his first nap is too early.  Can you push it out a shade, with the aim of heading gently towards 10 am?  This would hopefully full his EW forward a bit, as a first step, and it might give him a longer PM.  It does sound like long AM, short PM, and EBT as necessary will be what you aim for, because of the school run. 
*Anne*, loving mama to a honeybee (2010) and a sweetpea (2012).  BF for 4 proud years.


Offline Mackjack

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Re: Almost 9mo - NW, EWs, A times all over the place....
« Reply #33 on: November 06, 2014, 09:45:47 am »
The nappy flooding - to be honest, I think it's when I put him to bed on a full bladder. Usually, I like to let him wee after his bedtime milk and then change him again. It's happened in the past and it turned out I was using nappies that were actually too big so I've dropped a size.

I will definitely try pushing out the first nap. That's the only nap he shows me sleepy signs for so I usually put him straight down when I see his cues. But maybe when he starts seeming sleepy I will just walk around with him for 15minutes to keep him calm and then put him down.

By the way, last night, after waking from that 30min nap at 14.15, I was planning on getting him to bed really early but due to DD's after school activities etc, I didn't  manage it and he didn't go down til 18.45 (so 4.5hr A time). We had two early NWs - one at 20.30 (which tbh I think might have been caused by noisy fireworks outside) and one at 22.30. Both were very brief and easily settled and he woke at 6.05am. So I'm not quite sure what to take from that? Do I try to put him to bed exhausted so that if I do get NWs they're only OT ones which are easily settled??!? (Probably a bit mean!)

Offline Martini~

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Re: Almost 9mo - NW, EWs, A times all over the place....
« Reply #34 on: November 06, 2014, 18:20:16 pm »
Just popping, my DS also had to be put to bed really tired to have a nice 12h night. It is a tricky game, tired but not OT, but that's how it looks at our home:).
~Marta

Offline weaver

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Re: Almost 9mo - NW, EWs, A times all over the place....
« Reply #35 on: November 06, 2014, 20:19:55 pm »
Both were very brief and easily settled and he woke at 6.05am.
I'm really back to thinking he's LSN.  What do you think? Impossible??
*Anne*, loving mama to a honeybee (2010) and a sweetpea (2012).  BF for 4 proud years.


Offline Mackjack

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Re: Almost 9mo - NW, EWs, A times all over the place....
« Reply #36 on: November 06, 2014, 23:39:36 pm »
No not impossible at all! Had an, ahem, interesting day and bedtime today which will probably make you think that even more!  Will update tomorrow - better try to sleep now as who knows what tonight has in store...

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Re: Almost 9mo - NW, EWs, A times all over the place....
« Reply #37 on: November 07, 2014, 06:37:57 am »
I'm thinking UT too, fingers crossed for a good night x
Zoe


Offline Mackjack

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Re: Almost 9mo - NW, EWs, A times all over the place....
« Reply #38 on: November 07, 2014, 09:17:54 am »
Right so,  yesterday:
WU 6.05

S Weaver, I stretched him out as you suggested and put him down at 10am. He woke at 10.35 very upset. Managed to resettle him after 5/10mins (haven't tried to do that in a looong time). And he went back to sleep til 11.25

S 15.00-15.35 in pram

BT as the last nap wasn't particularly long I thought I should go for a shorter A time of 3.15. Mistake. He would not go to sleep. Had to leave DH to sort him out in the end as I had to go out. He didn't manage to get him down til 20.00

No NWS

WU 6.30

So is it LSN? Or needs longer A time? I'm stuck. Because we've had days like this  before with about the same amount of sleep where he's gone to bed fine. It could've been that he just needed another 15mins A time before bed but he got himself so worked up, he didn't settle til 20.00

Offline Mackjack

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Re: Almost 9mo - NW, EWs, A times all over the place....
« Reply #39 on: November 08, 2014, 11:47:35 am »
Seriously what is going on!!!
Yesterday's EASY was a bit stupid but it shouldve definitely made  him OT but we still got a 2.5 hr wu last night! !! Here's how our day went

WU 6.30
S stretched him out again til 10.20, had to take l resettle at 30 mins and he slept til 11.40
No second nap - we did the school run and he didn't nod off at all and was fine all afternoon. Didn't mean to give him a ridiculous A time but by the time we got back from school it was too late for a nap
BT 18.00
NW 12.45 for 2.5 hrs

I was trying to really pay attention to his behaviour during the NW - he didn't seem to be bothered if I was in the room. He kept snuggling down, going back to sleep then waking crying 5/10 mins later crying. I'm at the end of my tether with this.  I so nearly did CIO - clearly I DO NOT intend to do that but I just don't know what to do anymore.  As soon as we hear a murmur on the monitor,  we know we are going to be awake flee ages and it's just infuriating and exhausting! !

Offline Mackjack

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Re: Almost 9mo - NW, EWs, A times all over the place....
« Reply #40 on: November 08, 2014, 11:49:25 am »
*for* ages

Btw,  he woke at 6.10 this morn

Online Haribo2012

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Re: Almost 9mo - NW, EWs, A times all over the place....
« Reply #41 on: November 08, 2014, 13:01:39 pm »
Big hugs, I would guess that NW was OT if he was finding it hard to nod off. It was a long day at his age when the nap was early in the day if that makes sense.
How's nap gone today?
Of course I'm sure you won't do CIO hun as you know that won't really solve this issue, I know it's tough but it will get better honestly x
Zoe


Offline weaver

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Re: Almost 9mo - NW, EWs, A times all over the place....
« Reply #42 on: November 08, 2014, 13:57:02 pm »
I just don't know what to do anymore.  As soon as we hear a murmur on the monitor,  we know we are going to be awake flee ages and it's just infuriating and exhausting! !
Oh lovey, I hear you on infuriating, it's exactly how I would feel.  If you feel near breaking, come here and yell at us :) or ask DH to help, maybe give you a night off. 

So, first off to clarify, we don't want to get him OT, as that in itself will cause sleep disruption, what we need to do is find his sweet spot and get the sleep there.  It's a question of distributing his sleep throughout the day so he gets enough at the right times. I think you're close!  That may sound mad to you, sorry, but let me explain.

For that first nap, yes, I did suggest that you try and push it later, but if you've done that with a sudden big jump in A, he will be getting OT, which seems to be the case as he's waking at 30 mins.  Great that he is going back to sleep, but maybe hold steady and don't keep pushing him.  Usually we suggest increasing by 15 mins for three days at a time to allow LO to adjust. 

Second, I think with this first nap, there is a point at which you need to wake him up, in order to ensure he gets his second nap in the buggy, and you don't get more NW.  I suggest trying getting him up by 11.15 for now.  There's a bit of trial and error, it might be a shade earlier or later, and will probably need to get earlier as time goes on. 

With where we are now, I think he's on the lower end of sleep needs, not massively LSN, but definitely below average.  I think an hour and a bit in the morning and 30-40 minutes might do him and give you a good night, that's my current hunch.

I think last night's NW was OT, with no nap at all in the afternoon, but you do say he settles down and then wakes again.  Has he any teeth coming? Have you tried meds?
*Anne*, loving mama to a honeybee (2010) and a sweetpea (2012).  BF for 4 proud years.


Offline Martini~

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Re: Almost 9mo - NW, EWs, A times all over the place....
« Reply #43 on: November 08, 2014, 18:10:10 pm »
Point from my side... My best friend had the same issue however her son did it later (almost 11,5mo) but he is rather HSN. He was refusing second nap and he did long NW. He could do a one nap day but he also had NW after such a day.
The case for him was length of the day. He still needed 2 naps to survive the day, but 12h night was out of his reach. So the length of the day was the solution, not even the nap length and total day sleep. So my BF is now sticking to 12,5-13h day, first nap uncapped (1,5-2,5), than second nap always in a buggy (15-30min). She doesn't wake him up too much (she hates it), she also does second nap in a buggy as firstly there is no problem with settling and secondly he just does a short nap in a buggy and in a crib he would take a longer nap and than had problems with settling at BT.

HTH
~Marta

Offline Mackjack

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Re: Almost 9mo - NW, EWs, A times all over the place....
« Reply #44 on: November 13, 2014, 09:31:04 am »
Hi ladies. So sorry I've not replied to you - internet has been down.

So, first to respond to your points - Martii - I did wonder about the length of the day issue but we've had NWs regardless of day length so I'm not sure.

Weaver - your point about discomfort - we usually give him meds during a NW and it makes no difference at all. BUT you did get me thinking (and I hope you don't all roll your eyes and think "why didn't you think of that earlier"!!) - he has mild silent reflux. His last prescribed dose was 2 x 2.5ml of Ranitidine which I used to give morning and bedtime. I have been weaning him off this for weeks and only been giving him the bedtime dose. I really thought he was getting over it but your post made me think maybe not. So, the other day I went back to giving him a morning dose too...and he napped for just over 2hrs. Something he hasn't done in a loooong time. The next day, his morning nap was short again (1hr15) but he had milk not long before he napped so i thought IF it is a reflux thing maybe the milk before the nap made him refluxy and made him wake early.

Also, I took your point about not pushing his morning A too fast but all of a sudden he seems to be dealing fine with 3.45-4hr A time in the AM and not waking at the 30mins mark.

So I've been going along with this reflux theory and I know you suggested to cut the morning nap but I wanted to experiment a bit and let him sleep to see what happens. So the last few days we've had a few days where he  has had long naps in the morning (and woken up happy), then a really short PM nap (around 20mins waking no later than about 16.20) and then he's been going to bed at 20.00 and waking at 6am. This is by no means an ideal EASY but it seemed to be helping with the NWS. Until yesterday. Yesterday he had a short AM nap (although woke very happy)and a short PM nap. He seems to need 3.5hrs A time before bed nowadays but when I got him to bed he suddenly became massively OT and was crying. He ended up waking at 00.50 for 2hrs.

I'll post a few days' EASY below but I'm wondering if even though I've put him back on 2 dosesof Ranitidine,  I should go back to the doc, and get his Ranitidine dose adjusted to see if that helps??

SUNDAY -(PUt him back on 2 x doses of Ranitidine)
WU 6.05
S 9.50-11.55
S 16.00 - 16.20
BT 20.00

MONDAY
WU 6am - fell back to sleep in our bed til 7am
S 10.55 - 12.10
S 16.05.16.20
BT 20.00

TUES
WU 6.30
S 10.15-12.15
S 16.05 - 16.25
BT 19.55

WEDS
WU 6.10
S 10.00 - 11.10 - woke v happy
S15.00- 15.25
BT 19.10 seemed OT
NW 00.50 - 2.40am - he wasn't crying at all when I was in the room with him, just fidgeting about. He would seem settled, so I'd leave the room for about 10mins and then he'd strike up crying again. Eventually hubby went in which DID make him cry but he settled eventually. He didn't seem in pain - just fidgety really.