Author Topic: LSN or something else?  (Read 9707 times)

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Offline morvayc

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Re: LSN or something else?
« Reply #60 on: October 21, 2014, 21:01:07 pm »
Do you think it's a mistake doing the 4.5 A till bedtime tonight? I too wouldn't normally do this, but that would land us at 7pm, and I'm trying to be consistent with that BT.

Offline LovelyLilyandJack

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Re: LSN or something else?
« Reply #61 on: October 22, 2014, 05:20:42 am »
Sorry, I've seen this too late but I'd have gone for it to see what happens!  You don't know til you try,  and I don't mind a few messy days with J if it shifts BT quickly.  But I'm a lot less fearful of OT than I was with lily - partly cos I've seen with J that he gets over it easily and it generally buys me extra sleep once he starts catching up ;) And I agree that a consistent bedtime will help you shift WU too.

I think the general advice is to move BT in 15 minute increments. You can still do that - move it 15 minutes, hold for 3 days and then move it another 15, but with unpredictable naps I always found that harder to do cos it just drags it out. But you've got to do what you're comfortable with.

What did you do in the end?
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 05:22:28 am by LovelyLilyandJack »



Offline morvayc

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Re: LSN or something else?
« Reply #62 on: October 22, 2014, 11:20:51 am »
So, she wound up with a night something like this....

BT-650 (took forever to fall asleep, so I suspect OT)
multiple NWs after that, which she ss
up at 448-530 ( in that time, gave milk and meds, and brought her to my bed)
slept 530-600, then on and off from 615-7am

I now have no idea what to do with the rest of the day.  Feeling pretty hopeless over here.  I'm a terrible sleeper myself, so even when she is sleeping, I'm staring at the clock/monitor just waiting for the next blip....regardless of how tired I am.

Offline Martini~

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Re: LSN or something else?
« Reply #63 on: October 22, 2014, 12:42:55 pm »
Eh Hon it's the same with me.
I am here all the time reading but have not time to write back to you.

I would stick to a set nap time - let's say 9:30/10:00. Give her 20 or 30min wake at certain time and then look for a good time for second nap. In our case at this age and LSN needs it probably is:
9:30 for 20min
1pm for 1:30h
BT at 7, WU 6:30/7:00.
If he wakes earlier I still stick to a set morning nap and do 20min but than I might put him down slightly earlier for afternoon nap (let's say 12:30 Anderson him sleep 2h). He isn't great at BT as slightly OT after 4:30 A, but... that's when I get a good night and resettling at 6am! If his second nap will end earlier and his A seems to be very long I usually make a 10min catnap in the pram around 4/5pm. It has to be a short catnap so he has second wind but then once again tired at 7pm.
~Marta

Offline morvayc

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Re: LSN or something else?
« Reply #64 on: October 22, 2014, 12:51:38 pm »
Thanks for writing Martii85!  It's soooo hard to know what the right thing to do is.  Right now, I feel like nothing I do makes any difference.  I realize that it would be ideal to stick to the same routine over a period of days, to see what the issues may be, but she NEVER does the same thing twice.  The only things that are consistent, are that she wake too darn early!  To be quite honest, I'm not even sure that she is LSN.  Maybe I'm just making all the wrong decisions. :-[  Did your LO finally start waking later with some routine changes?  I really can't deal with 4am WUs anymore.

Offline morvayc

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Re: LSN or something else?
« Reply #65 on: October 23, 2014, 11:58:00 am »
So yesterday was just a mess....
WU-650 (after much resettling)
nap1-955-1040 (woke her after 45 min)
nap2-1:45-215 (30 minutes!)
So, because of "crap naps", I decided on SEBT, given that catnaps and ebts lead to EWs
In crib by 5:15.  She was having none of it.  Nonsense continued until 6:05, then sleep
Multiple NWs, where she would cry out and then ss.  Longer NW at around 1030, where I fed and medicated.  LOOOONNNGG NW from 310-435, where again, I fed and medicated.  She was quite inconsolable.  Slept from 435-715.
Her night sleep totalled 11hrs45min, so it appears that she made up for lost nap time, with a bunch of nonsense thrown in.  I have no idea what to make of any of this.  The long NW happened at roughly the same time that they always do, but previously, I was thinking these were UT, but there is no way that with 1hr15min of naps during the day, that this could be possible, right?  As a first time mom, does teething really cause this much chaos?  She only has her 2 bottom teeth, which came in last week.  I can't feel anymore coming, but she's constantly drooling and biting on everything in site.

Offline MasynSpencerElliotte

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Re: LSN or something else?
« Reply #66 on: October 23, 2014, 13:02:17 pm »
Teeething really depends on the kid - DD1 was a horrid teether and for sure we had tons of nw's, DD2 never was bothered by teeth and DD3 has nw's when they are finally breaking through the gum and needs meds.
Heidi




Offline LovelyLilyandJack

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Re: LSN or something else?
« Reply #67 on: October 25, 2014, 06:23:08 am »
How are you getting on?  Jack has woken early the last 2 mornings and our clocks go back tonight (urgh!), so I was thinking of you.



Offline Martini~

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Re: LSN or something else?
« Reply #68 on: October 25, 2014, 06:53:19 am »
When there is time change is US? Also thinking of you. We have good nights so far but nice crappy naps:)))
~Marta

Offline morvayc

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Re: LSN or something else?
« Reply #69 on: October 25, 2014, 13:10:58 pm »
Hey Ladies,

Things around here are pretty status quo......which is to say that they are bad!  I'm making no real progress with pushing bedtime back, as she naps/wakes up at different times every day, and our DS starts Nov.2nd.  The night wakings are still very long and unexplainable.  It's like she has totally forgotten how to self settle.  I'm struggling between allowing her time to figure it out, or going in straight away before she's totally wide awake.  I've resorted to medicating and feeding.....which I thought we were done with at 6 months!  I hope that this is truly a phase, and that I have not created a new bad habit.  Up until about 2 nights ago, I assumed the night wakings were due to UT, but after a day of nap time totalling 1hr15min, she still gave me a 1h hour NW.  I just don't know, and I second guess everything that I'm doing.  Do you ladies follow total awake time hours in a day?  I've been reading somewhere that the total awake time hours should never exceed 10.  Who knows.  I'm now thinking that none of what I do matters, and that she will do what she will do.

Offline MasynSpencerElliotte

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Re: LSN or something else?
« Reply #70 on: October 25, 2014, 16:09:11 pm »
I have never heard the 10 hour thing...we have been on approx 12 awake hours in a day for ages. She would just be up early to make up the difference anyways. 
Heidi




Offline Martini~

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Re: LSN or something else?
« Reply #71 on: October 25, 2014, 16:23:24 pm »
Hi:) i also never heard of 10h however I agree that every child has a ammout of sleep he needs a day. And if you put him down to early, you risk NW or EW. I also think that ammount of sleep is important but some kids just need to get tired before BT. Like my DS. I have to tire him out (but be careful and not OT) to have a decent 1:30+ nap or good long night. I also believe in routines so sometimes your child is not so tired but he will make a good nap as this part of the day he always do it. And I also believe in catchups and OT build up, so you kid may make a long 2h nap once a 3 days but that's fine for him and also you can think that he is totally fine but after three days on specific routine you will see that it's wrong as OT or UT come in.

To sum up, I am trying to solve/plan DS routine for 2,5m now from the moment he went to nursery but still not yet there:). My strategy: look as specific routine after couple of days, understand that after the same A I can have OT or UT nap/night (depends on how last three days looked like), don't worry about times, rather look at his behavior.

HTH!
~Marta

Offline LovelyLilyandJack

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Re: LSN or something else?
« Reply #72 on: October 25, 2014, 17:59:53 pm »
I can't quote on my phone but martii's last paragraph - that's exactly what we do.  Set A times, and watch for at least 3 days before thinking about OT or UT or anything else. If I really don't know where we are I try and rule out OT first,  and shorten A times.  Then, after a few days I'll try something else. I also put lot by mood - if J seems happy then I assume all is ok cos he just doesn't fit typical A times for his age.  He is also on much more than 10hrs A and has been since about 6 months probably!

The other thing I look at is total sleep.  So at the moment, J's total sleep in 24hrs is 11 - 11.5 hrs. I want 10.5 - 11 at night, so that leaves about half an hour in the day (he's on the low end of that total sleep range atm). If you add up total sleep as an average over a week, decide what the max you think she can do at night is,  and that'll tell you how many hours you've got to play with in the day.

HTH x



Offline morvayc

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Re: LSN or something else?
« Reply #73 on: October 25, 2014, 19:23:57 pm »
I thought the 10 hrs awake time per day sounded quite low, and we have never been that low that I can remember, I'm just grasping at straws, ladies. :( I'm trying to look at total sleep hours in a 24 hr period, but they seem to be all over the place at the moment.  The only time that nap hrs seem to affect night sleep, is when there are too many.  Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to work the other way around, ie, she won't usually tack onto night sleep what she didn't get during the day.  Also, the total sleep hrs really depends on whether I can resettle after the EW/NW.  For instance, last night she had a 1 hr NW, and after resettling, she slept another 2.5hrs....sometimes she won't, or I just don't have the patience to wait 90minutes for an extra 30 minutes of sleep.

Offline LovelyLilyandJack

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Re: LSN or something else?
« Reply #74 on: October 25, 2014, 19:41:38 pm »
Jack doesn't really tack on either,  unless he's OT and only then he has a limit as to how much he'll do. (((Hugs))) We've had lots of very long EW phases, it really gets to you. 

With the day sleep, if you take an average over a week or two it might give you an idea of what to aim for,  and some clues about how to space it out. E.g If she needs 2hrs tops, you're probably looking at one 30 minute nap and one 1.5hr nap.

The other thing is it could well be teeth that are bothering her? J EWs for weeks on end when he's teething. The only way you'll really know is to stick to a plan for a few days, see where you are and then tweak, hold and try again. I know it's very frustrating and slow but if you accept the EWs are here to stay for a while, then each day matters a bit less and it takes the pressure off a bit so you can look at what's going on.

Here for you if you want any more advice or just a hand to hold!