Author Topic: Where to start with this huge mess?!  (Read 7166 times)

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Offline *foxy*

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Where to start with this huge mess?!
« on: October 13, 2014, 06:20:52 am »
Hi

DS is 4mo. I've been posting on the CRC board as he was being treated for reflux since 9wo but didn't respond to any meds - tried Gaviscon, ranitidine and and omeprazole. I found an LC who came and did a tongue tie assessment, diagnosed a severe one and snipped it then and there. That was 2 days ago.

For the last 10 weeks DS has been short napping (30-40 mins) and waking 8,9,10 times in the night, every night. Sometimes every 45 mins. Usually starts in his cot and ends up next to me as he wakes so often. I can resettle him by either feeding back to sleep or he sucks on my finger, cuddles, patting etc. There is also usually a period of long NW of about 1-1.5 hours around 4.30/5am. He'll go back to sleep for 40 mins, then he's up for the day. He's not an independent sleeper due to the suspected reflux, I have been APOPing all naps. BT is usually around 6/6.30pm depending on how his naps have been. There isn't an EASY routine as I just couldn't stick to it - he changed every day and it was stressing me out.

I have tried a dairy and soya free diet for a month. It didn't make a difference. Now back on diary and soya and there's no difference either.

I'm talking to the GP today about PPD meds as I feel low and exhausted most of the time.

I'm hoping the TT division will help long term but he's an older baby and has learnt bad habits. I need to try to sort this mess out as Im losing my mind and getting more tearful as it's just horrendous every night. Can anyone help me with where to start with this? Im so tired I can't think straight, Im just trying to make it through each day. I have an older dd who's at school so there's school drop offs and pick ups each day to factor in too.


*Kate*

Offline jessmum46

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Re: Where to start with this huge mess?!
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2014, 07:12:19 am »
Big big hugs Kate, you've been through an awful lot :(. I'm here to hold your hand through it hun :-*

First of all, I think it's important to get you sorted.  Sleep training can be hard work and it's important that you are in as good a place as you can be, though I appreciate you will be tired.  Second will anyone be available to help out with DD for a few days while you get started?  It will I imagine be pretty tricky to deal with both if you are trying to alter some AP habits.

Third does your gut instinct tell you DS is as comfortable as he can be?  Do you feel like there's anything unresolved from a discomfort point of view that needs addressing?  Just asking because as you know sleep training is pointless if LO is in pain, but you are there and know best and if your gut says this is all habit now, then you can definitely get started.

It would help if you could post a recent day or two, just as a starting point.  Maybe just keep track for the next two days.  Don't worry if it seems all over the place, that's fine :). When you say you are APing all naps what are you doing?  Holding?  Shh pat to sleep?  Just affects how you might approach the sleep training :)

What time are your school runs while we think about a routine?


Offline *foxy*

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Re: Where to start with this huge mess?!
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2014, 08:19:43 am »
Thanks Katherine. I need all the support I can get!

Last night he was squirmy and squeaked a few times as if in discomfort so yes I have a feeling that there is still some unresolved discomfort there. And he was gassy - but his latch is still shallow so maybe it's still to do with bad habits from the TT? The LC said with older babies it takes longer to change how they feed. We are on the paediatricians waiting list but it might be another 3 weeks until we get an appointment.

For naps he feeds/sucks to sleep with me holding him.

For the school run we leave the house at 8.30am back just after 9. For pick up we leave at 3pm back at about 3.30/45

Last week we kind of had a routine ish. He'd have a nap around 7.45am for 30/40 mins. Then another at 9.30am for 2 hours (with 3 WU's) then another at 1.30ish for 40mins then another around 4.15 for 30 mins. BT 6.15/30pm. The weekend has messed that up what with the LC coming at 10am etc. on Saturday. 

He fell asleep in the car on the way home from school - it's like 3 mins away (raining badly here!) now he's asleep next to me (9.10am) he's very tired. My mum can come and help but she's 2.5 hours away so it's quite a big thing. My DP's parents are quite close so I could ask them to help if needed.


*Kate*

Offline michaeljacknnugg

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Re: Where to start with this huge mess?!
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2014, 08:38:38 am »
Kate, big hugs first of all. I don't have personal experience but I do have a friend (near you, I think!) whose baby had severe tongue tie also. He has had it cut several times as it grew back. I wanted to tell you this so that you factor it in to your thoughts. Maybe it is just worth working on feeding and checking that the tie doesn't recur for now?
My 'little man' - kind-hearted Spirited whirlwind, 2008
My love, my everything - BabyTwo, Nov 2015

Offline jessmum46

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Re: Where to start with this huge mess?!
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2014, 11:40:57 am »
Hmmm, it's hard to know what to do, I can feel how desperate you are to get started with sorting this out but if he's still not right......really it's not fair to expect him to learn too much yk?  Is the LC helping you with feeding/positioning and latch?  I wonder if you wanted to do something whether you could very gently start to try to break the sucking to sleep association using the gentle removal plan? Gentle Removal Plan  It doesn't feel like the right point yet to be doing anything too drastic, what do you think? 

Routine wise although he's tired, you may need to get pushing the A times a little and try to just have three naps unless they are all a complete disaster.  He may well be uncomfortable at night and waking because of that, but too many sleeps/too short A time really won't help the situation either.  It will be hard to increase though because he will be tired from his broken nights, but probably you need to get to at least 1h45 or so if not 2h.  It's good you can resettle him :).  Overall I'm wondering if you could aim for him to fall asleep on the school run around 9ish for his first nap (will he transfer?) and then if it's a long one do the second one at 12.30/1ish, to be awake for the school pickup, then a catnap in the evening if he needs one?  If it's a short one then down for second nap earlier and hope for a longer 2-2.5h one?

Something like:

WU 7, nap 9-10.30, nap 12.30-2/2.30, CN around 4.30, BT 6.30/7
Or WU 7, nap 9-10.15, nap 12-2/2.30?

What about trying to roughly establish a routine first then focus on the independent sleeping afterwards once you've seen the paediatrician?

Offline *foxy*

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Re: Where to start with this huge mess?!
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2014, 12:39:36 pm »
A routine would be nice so that I can at least plan things - I don't get out and that's having an affect on my mood. I feel very isolated.

So if he wakes at 4.30/5am and is up for 1/1.5 hours. Is that bc he's UT? He's so tired by 6pm. Then goes to sleep for 40 mins - he usually wakes around 6.30am. It just makes that first A time too long do you think? I can't get him to sleep at 8.30 even if we walk to school as it's so noisy once we get there that he naps for about 10 mins and is woken up. And obviously if we drive I have to get him out to walk DD in. A 2.5 hour A time is a bit much after a broken night do you think?


*Kate*

Offline jessmum46

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Re: Where to start with this huge mess?!
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2014, 13:02:24 pm »
Hugs Hun, you need to get out and look after yourself, I know it's probably the last thing you feel like doing but it's not good being so isolated.  Can friends come to you if it all feels too much leaving the house at the moment?

I see your dilemma in the mornings, really to get to a nap post-9am he needs to be waking at 7am or later and ideally without that horrible EW.  Ugh, they are the pits.  Especially when LO goes back off for 40 mins or so, it kind of works like the first nap so sets off a horrible short A times/short naps spiral (again).  I don't know that UT is the issue, we had those wakings when DS was cutting his first two teeth so I wonder if discomfort is part of it. 

I guess you could grit your teeth a bit and push him to stay awake until you get back from the school run.  Can't imagine it will be pretty, you'll almost certainly get a short nap, but then perhaps you could do around 1h30 A time after it and you might get a long one?  Really not sure what your alternative is if he won't sleep on the school run....unless you get up and start your day at 6am?  Earlier BT 5/5.30pm and just do the whole thing earlier?  Just throwing some ideas out there for you to consider x

Offline *foxy*

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Re: Where to start with this huge mess?!
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2014, 18:41:57 pm »
Thanks Katherine. He's asleep now (6.40pm) had a 30 min CN at 4.30-5pm, on me - he woke up as soon as I tried putting him down. With DD around its hard spending too much time getting him to sleep as she wants some mummy time after school and is also hungry! Even if I give her food before I try to put him down - she eats all evening! Maybe I give her a platter?! My point it is - she comes to find me if Im gone too long and wakes DS up.

I'll have a look at the gentle removal plan as Im sure some of it is he doesn't know how to self settle when he comes out of a sleep cycle. He's woken 40 mind after BT. Have him calpol before bed just incase he's still sore from the TT division.

I'll see what time he wakes in the morning. Maybe I try some more calpol or some gripe water if it's discomfort that's keeping him awake. He seems agitated at that time of the night. If he wakes 6.30/7 I'll try getting him through until we're back from the school run. He actually deals with being tired pretty well as long as he's being held. Then we'll see how that first nap goes. Thanks so much for your help


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Offline jessmum46

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Re: Where to start with this huge mess?!
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2014, 18:56:22 pm »
Let me know how you go, will be here to hold your hand xx

Offline ENMS

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Re: Where to start with this huge mess?!
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2014, 18:57:27 pm »
Lots of (((hugs))). Did they give you exercices for the TT? My DS had a very severe posterior TT that only one Dr (expert in TT) could finaĺly fix. It took 3 tries before that and the différence in his feeding was immédiate. Maybe see the LC again or if you can find a specialised TT dentist or Dr?

I know it sounds really weird but for my DS the 5AM Wake ups were always due to digestive discomfort. Never knew why exactly but I guess some final stage of digestion was happening at that time?

For us, probiotics really help helped and also removing the foods he was intolerant to. Gripe water might help as you were suggesting.
Elise



Offline *foxy*

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Re: Where to start with this huge mess?!
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2014, 19:04:48 pm »
Thanks Elise. The LC has advised about feeding him differently - the latch etc and said to get him chewing things and sucking things to keep his tongue moving. You an see he can definitely move it more now.

I'm waiting for my order of probiotics - hoping they will arrive in the next couple of days. I think it's his tummy - he's still quite gassy. I'm hoping that will change as his feeding improves and he stops swallowing so much air. He is less squirmy but it hasn't completely resolved.


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Offline *foxy*

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Re: Where to start with this huge mess?!
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2014, 21:07:12 pm »
So BT was 6.40pm it's now 10pm and he has already woken up 5 times - the thing is, that's not unusual!...............I need a break!!
« Last Edit: October 13, 2014, 21:13:04 pm by *foxy* »


*Kate*

Offline *foxy*

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Re: Where to start with this huge mess?!
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2014, 08:03:16 am »
Well we had an awful start and an awful end to the night but the middle was pretty good! :o
He slept from 11pm until 3.45am which is really good for him. Very gassy when he woke up - it was shocking and did a poo and was up until 5.30 ::) but that longer stretch was encouraging - no idea why he did it.

Woke at 6.30am. He fell asleep again in the car on the way home from dropping DD at school (8.50) I scooped him up and he's now in bed. We'll see how long the nap is..........
« Last Edit: October 14, 2014, 08:05:05 am by *foxy* »


*Kate*

Offline *foxy*

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Re: Where to start with this huge mess?!
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2014, 20:34:50 pm »
His 1st nap was an hour, then 3 30 min naps. He wouldn't resettle. So the routine didn't go to plan today. Hopefully the night won't be too bad


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Offline jessmum46

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Re: Where to start with this huge mess?!
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2014, 08:09:05 am »
How'd it go? Xx