Author Topic: 8.5 month old goes down easy, but several night wakings  (Read 858 times)

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Offline carolchevrand

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8.5 month old goes down easy, but several night wakings
« on: October 18, 2014, 12:54:30 pm »
My daughter is 8.5 months old.  She was never a good sleeper. She slept on me until she was 4 months old. She’s been sleeping in her room for the last 2 weeks and the night wakings are killing us!  I'd like advice on helping her learn to sleep through the night.

She will fall asleep on her own for naptimes and bedtime, but during the night she wakes every 2 hours, sometimes every 1.5hs and if we are lucky every 3 hours.  She has never been consistent.

When she wakes at night, baby is sometimes only half-awake (eyes shut, but crying and other times she is standing up in her crib crying.   

Usually when she first wakes up, I give her the paci and she falls back asleep…but the next time she wakes up I give her the breast. I’ve been breastfeeding her twice at nice. I’d like to cut down to only one, since I’m woring in the morning and she does not want the bottle. She eats breakfast and have lunch before I get home, when I do nurse her.

Here is our daytime routine:

5:30am wake (nurse and back to sleep one more hour, but if it is in bed with me)
6:30 wake
8:30 breakfast
9:15nap (usually 1.5h) (place in crib while still awake)
11:30 lunch
12:30 nurse
2:30pm nap (usually 1.5hs place in crib while still awake))
4:00pm nurse
6:00 pm dinner
7:00 bed time routine (bath, pjs nurse)
7:30pm BT (place in crib drowsy)
11:30pm (wake, paci, sleep)
00:30 am (wake, nurse, sleep)
4am (wake, nurse, sleep)
5:30 am (wake, bed with me)
6:30 WT.


I have recently moved her bedtime from 8pm to 7:30 pm, she is sleeping a little bit better (stretching her first sleep) but she is wide wake at 5:30. She is a happy spirited baby, with lots of energy…sometimes I feel that she just needs less sleep than most babies.

I’m the one waking up every night, but only because I’m so tired and I know she goes back to sleep faster with me. Ever time my DH tried, it was harder, she cried more and I can't sleep either. But he is eager to help, hehehe.

She does not have a lovie and is constantly learning something new (she almost walking at the moment)
I'd love advice on how to eliminate these night wakings.  My husband and I are exhausted! (Our daughter, though, seems happy, I can even imagine how much more energy she can have, when she starts STTN!)

Thank you!

Offline Kellyjs

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Re: 8.5 month old goes down easy, but several night wakings
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2014, 13:15:06 pm »
Hi hun,

Just a couple of questions if I may? Have the NW's only started once you move her into her own room? Is there any teething going on dyt?

Wrt the early morning wu, I think you're going have to work on pushing that first nap out. I think she's counting on that nice long nap at 9.15am to catch up on the sleep she's missed by waking early and throughout the night. Tbh, I would continue as you are doing for that 5.30am wu to get her back to sleep so she can start the day at a reasonable time, then you can try and start moving that nap later. It would be difficult to do if she starts the day that early iykwim?

You may find as well as moving it later that you'll have to cap that nap too soon so the day doesn't get too long. We hit the 2-1 transition around this time so I had to cap a nap to preserve BT, but you might be able to get away with just moving it later for now? Perhaps look at capping it at an hour once you are able to move it 30+ mins later so you can keep the rest of the day as you have been doing.

Unfortunately there is a developmental leap around this age too that can play havoc with sleep, especially if she's on the verge of walking.



Offline carolchevrand

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Re: 8.5 month old goes down easy, but several night wakings
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2014, 17:03:56 pm »
Hi! Thank you so much for your reply!

She’s been having several NW’s since always! She slept on me until she was 4 months old, when we did PU/PD to move her to her crib. It was actually easier than I had expected, however we had some major routine changes (moving, visiting my parents abroad for a very long time, I started working in the mornings, teething, two different babysitters, etc) so it was difficult to stablish a good routine and I also I have realized that she is very sensite to any changes. W co slept for a while, but even when she was in my bed, she woke up many times.
We are finally on a good schedule right now so we thought we it time to try to improve her sleep a little bit. She is not teething.

It’s a little bit difficult to try to move her morning nap, as she is with the babysitter and more “melow” than any other time. But we can try… I’m just not sure how the rest of the day should be.
I still don’t think she is ready for only 1 nap. How long should her morning nap be? What if I have a long morning nap and short afternoon nap, do u think that would also work?

Thank you!!



Offline Kellyjs

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Re: 8.5 month old goes down easy, but several night wakings
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2014, 18:35:32 pm »
The transition takes time, some even a few months. I'll post a link about it in a mo for you to have a read through to prepare yourself  ;)

Long am, short pm nap could work, but you'll still have to move that morning nap a lot later for it to work so you can have a shorter A to bed after the shorter nap. At this age I think we were doing, 4hrs first A for 1.5hr nap, then 3.5hrs for a 45mins capped nap then 2.5hrs to BT. But mine has always liked a shorter A to bed. She was prone to early waking in the morning too. I really, really had to push that nap out lots for it to rectify itself.

Personally I'd look at moving that first nap out by 15-20mins, hold for a couple of days then repeat. I would probably aim at capping the nap to one hour once you've reached the second round of extending the time or else your day might get a little too long. Have a read through the link, it will probably explain it better!

From 2 to 1 nap transition (10-12m and older)

I think wrt to the NW's you'll just have to try and be consistent as can be for a while since she's had so many changes take place recently. If you wanted to only bf for one NW, I'd pick a time to do that and all other WU's try and settle using ssh/pat initially then to pu/pd if it goes on too long since you've had great results with that so far. I never really had to use pu/pd as it used to irritate my DD. But even with those sleepy NW's you're having, you might find pu/pd might be too stimulating in the night time and ssh/pat might work? Worth a go?
« Last Edit: October 20, 2014, 18:37:25 pm by Kellyjs »



Offline carolchevrand

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Re: 8.5 month old goes down easy, but several night wakings
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2014, 19:47:21 pm »
Hi again!!

So, today she woke up at 6:30 am and she had her first nap at 9:30 (15 min later than her usual time) she slept for 1.5h. She had a 2nd nap at 14:30 (1h). Bedtime is approaching, so we will see how the night goes. I’ll try to stick with this routine for a few days.  She is usually in a much better mood in the afternoons…do u think that’s a sign that she prefers longer A to bed?

As for the NW’s, I’ll try ssh/pat for a while. PUPD worked when she was a younger…we tried again a few weeks ago and it was horrible. She got so upset, more stimulated and ended OT for a few days.
One more question…when should I feed her at night? When she wakes up or should I wake her up? 

Thank you thank you! 

Offline carolchevrand

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Re: 8.5 month old goes down easy, but several night wakings
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2014, 09:28:40 am »
Just a quick update on how the night went:

BT: 7:30pm
10pm (brief w)
1:30 (wake, nurse, sleep)
4 am ( wake, nurse, sleep)
5 am (wake, put her in bed with me)
6 am WU

She had less sleep during the day and less sleep at night.  ???

Offline Kellyjs

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Re: 8.5 month old goes down easy, but several night wakings
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2014, 11:43:27 am »
It could be that she prefers a longer A to bed. An hour nap is considered restorative so I would think she could go a good length of time. It could also be that you're around in the afternoons too so that's why she's happier  ;)

I personally wouldn't feed at all WU's in the night as you're not teaching her to self settle and tbh she shouldn't need both bf's now. Perhaps one would be ok, but I wouldn't wake her for it.

I would try and keep to a 12.5-13hr day if you can with those naps. Especially today as she woken up at 6am, I would aim for a 6.30pm BT.



Offline carolchevrand

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Re: 8.5 month old goes down easy, but several night wakings
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2014, 15:02:45 pm »
I think last night went a little bit better...

BT: 7:30 pm ( I couldn't get her to sleep Earlier... Even with the 6 WU... She was not tired!! )
22:30 (brief waking... I heard her from my bedroom when when I was getting up I didn't hear her again  :) I guess she found the paci and went back to sleep by herself!)
2am (wake, nurse and sleep)
4:30 (wake, shhh/pat, sleep)
5:30 (wake, bed with me, sleep)
6:35 WU

She had slept 2,5 has during the day...
I don't mind putting her in bed with me, I just wish she would skip that 4:30 w...


Offline Kellyjs

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Re: 8.5 month old goes down easy, but several night wakings
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2014, 18:03:18 pm »
That sound a like an improvement! I know those 4.30am WU's are the pits.. I find it really hard to go back to sleep after those.

I'd continue as you are and see if she settles into it. After a week or so, we can reassess how things are going. If no better, another tweak might be on the cards. Bear in mind though, things do start to go a little haywire further down the 2-1 transition, but if we can sort the majority of those NW's I'm sure you'll be feeling better!

Well done on the ssh/pat resettle though. Did she respond to it ok? X



Offline carolchevrand

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Re: 8.5 month old goes down easy, but several night wakings
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2014, 20:12:49 pm »
Well done on the ssh/pat resettle though. Did she respond to it ok? X

Not quiet... I didn't want to take her out of her crib, but I noticed she was getting a little frustrated , so I decided to hold her for some minutes and when she was a lot calmer, I placed her in crib again...she complaint a lillte bit but it was easier to settle her. I just hope I'm not creating another prop... I think my idea is to slowly get her used to not being fed at this time anymore...it will probably take longer... any suggestions? ??? ???

Offline Kellyjs

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Re: 8.5 month old goes down easy, but several night wakings
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2014, 06:34:30 am »
I think that's perfect, ssh/pat and pu/pd can be adapted to your LO, so whatever works, just continue doing it. I think for yours consistency is key atm so she learns her new sleeping arrangements. I would presume she's not hungry at that time considering she was only fed a few hours before and she's getting enough feeds during the day, so a resettle without feeding would be ideal and help eventually to teach her how to self-settle at night without your intervention.

I do think eventually you might want to wean bringing her into bed with you in the early mornings as she may learn to wake habitually for that purpose, but that's up to you of course! You may enjoy the early morning cuddles!

It will take time hun, but as Tracy always said, 'start as you mean to go on' and she will learn, I promise x



Offline carolchevrand

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Re: 8.5 month old goes down easy, but several night wakings
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2014, 09:30:46 am »

Thank you so much much for you support. I really appreciate, specially after two difficult nights...

Wed

WU 6:30
Naps: 9:30 a 10:40
14:10 a 15
BT: 7:30
7:30 a 1:15 BF (15 min)
3 am (wake, ssh/pat, sleep) 10 min
 3:40 (wake, held her, ssh/pat, sleep) 5 min
5:15 ( bed with me)
WU: 6:15 (only because my DH's alarm went off and woke us up!)

Yesterday

WU: 6:15
Nap: 9:30 a 11
Nap: 14:40 a 16;00

BT: 7:30 pm
12 (wake, ssh/pat, sleep) 5 min
2 am (wake, nurse, sleep) 15 min
3 am ( wake, held her, ssh/pat, sleep) 5 min
5  ( wake, held her, ssh/pat, sleep) 5 min
5:50  WU

I know you have suggested an earlier bedtime, but I'm really afraid of her waking up even earlier... She has never slept for more than 11 hour at night, usually 10,5h so maybe this is the best she can do? I think I should start capping her nap... She does seem to take longer naps when she has less night sleep. I'm so confused...  ???








Offline Kellyjs

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Re: 8.5 month old goes down easy, but several night wakings
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2014, 06:21:39 am »
So sorry you've had a rough couple of nights, how's things now? Sorry I haven't been on, I've had food poisoning for the first time ever... Teaches me to go out on my own with a friend for a change!

I know what you mean about being afraid of an earlier BT hun. But as the mantra goes, sleep begets sleep. You can only try and see if it works. 10.5hrs overnight sleep tends to signal OT or teething or both!

I do think she needs the less daytime sleep to encourage more nighttime sleep. It does seem to look like that doesn't it? If it makes you feel any better, we went through this exact same thing with the NW's at 8mo too x



Offline carolchevrand

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Re: 8.5 month old goes down easy, but several night wakings
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2014, 11:20:49 am »
Sorry you got food poisoning, I think it’s a sign we, moms, need to go out more with our friends!! ;)

So we’ve had even harder nights around here.. when I thought things could not get worse  :o
 She’s been having many NW’s and last night was the worst. She just didn’t want to sleep…. which had never happened before. She would wake up every 20/30 minutes chatting…wild awake. My husband and I were both exhausted so we use AP to get her to sleep but still she didn’t want to sleep. The only way she wanted to sleep was with me walking around the house. I know I wasn’t supposed to do this but it was very strange, even for her.
Her days have been pretty much the same…nothing has really changed, except for the naps variation (some days she will sleep only for 45 min and other 1.5hs.
I’m pretty sure she is teething now, which may be the reason why she is having more NWs.
I was reading your first post, when you said tat 8/9 months are difficult times for sleeping and I think I’m just going to wait for a while…I really don’t know what to do to make things better. It’s very difficult to be consistent when we have so many different nights.
Feeling a little hopeless right now… :(

Offline Kellyjs

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Re: 8.5 month old goes down easy, but several night wakings
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2014, 12:37:20 pm »
It is such a rubbish time, but it will pass hun. Waking every 20 mins or so tends to signal discomfort so I'd suspect teething. Have you tried medicating? Ibuprofen works better for teeth. Unfortunately I think it's a case of riding this one out. It should get better soon, especially once the teething stops for now. the days look good, so I wouldn't expect UT this time xx