How to start EASY with DS#2?

[aMei]

I want to start EASY with DS#2 (14 weeks old), but have no clue where to start. I've read through the FAQ but still feel lost. We implemented EASY with DS#1 (textbook) around 4 months old and have loved it.

From day 1, DS#2 has needed to be carried to fall asleep (and stay asleep during the day). We have been trying to transfer him and have found that when we transfer about 15 min in, we are more successful, but only 1/6 tries. We've tried carrying longer (20, 30, 60min), but with even less success. When he was about 6 weeks old, we tried having him sleep on his tummy, because he was jolting a lot and did not sleep well. After this change, he has become a better night time sleeper, more predictable (of course except the last 3 nights). His day time routine is still very unpredictable.

How do you have them sleep in the crib on their own when they are tummy sleepers? DS just lifts his head and does not respond to shush or pat or pacifier.

I'm a SAHM with 2 kids. I'm stressing out about what DS#1 can do while I'm helping DS#2. I'm already feeling guilty for the current situation of having to carry DS#2 to sleep and he wakes easily to noises, so I usually have to seclude myself and DS#2 so DS#1 doesn't wake baby.

What do I do when DS wakes early? Do I just restart EASY and nurse? Do I have him wait till it's been 3 hrs since last feeding? Do I wait till he signals hunger?

Here's a very rough idea of his EASY:

wake up/E 6-7:30am (this is the time frame of when he starts eating, not how long it takes)
A for 1.5 hours (if he is up before 6am or close to 6am, he will usually nurse to sleep and stay asleep for 1-2 hrs)
S 30-60min

E 9-10am (time frame, not length for all E times)
A for 1.5 hrs
S 30-60min

E noon-ish
A for 1.5 hrs
S 30-60min

E 2-3pm
A same as above...
S same as above...

E 4:30-5pm
A
S

E 7:30-8pm
A
S

DF 10-10:30pm. He refuses to nurse when he's asleep, so I have to wake him up a little bit. Should I not do that?

E 2-3am Nurse one side, change diaper, then nurse on the other side.

DS#2 is breastfed only. During the day, he usually will only nurse on one side and be done in about 10 min. He's wide awake after nursing. At night time (starting around 7pm), he will be half asleep while nursing and suck until I remove him and nurse from both sides. I tried only nursing on one side for the middle of the night feed and he woke up 2 hours later.

I feel like there's so much that I need to change and don't know where to start. Please give me some suggestions on where I should start. I remember the first few weeks being really difficult and exhausting with DS#1, so I'm anxious, but the current situation can't last much longer....DS#2 is not getting enough sleep (neither are the parents) and DS#1 is feeling neglected.

[trimbler]

Hugs aMei, it's hard with two! How old is your DS1? I found that getting out has been really helpful, for most of DD's life so far, she's taken three naps a day out in the sling (for preschool drop off and collection/park also the CN), which leaves just one in the cot. I'm afraid DS had just been left with DVDs/ipad whilst I've been settling her, not ideal but it's not forever. And I felt better about it since it was only one nap a day. Also when you're outside you may find that he doesn't wake so easily to every noise as there's so much background noise, so you won't have to worry so much about DS1. How would you feel about that for now? Just keep trying with shh pat for that one nap and bedtime, if you have help with DS1 in the evenings? You could just try for 45mins then take a break, bring him through to check on DS1, and try again a few minutes later.

When he does a short nap, wait a few minutes to see if he needs your help (unless he's yelling for you!), then go in and repeat. Rather than making him wait until the next feed time, just feed him if he's acting hungry or if you've been trying a while and can see he's not going to resettle, you can just bring the feed forward, but you will need to shorten the next A time as he'll already be OT, and of he's OT he'll have a harder time falling and staying asleep. Alternatively, just get him up for 20mins or so, until he's showing tired signs again, and try for another nap without feeding, so EASASE. Looking at you current A time of 1.5h, have you tried shorter A times? Not all LOs can manage that at 14 weeks, do you think he might be tired earlier? You may find if you wait until he's rubbing his eyes that he's already too tired, just a thought.

In a few weeks, if nothing is working with self settling, you may want to consider PUPD? If so, try to get support over a couple of weeks if at all possible, not only for you but for DS1 too, as that's a difficult last resort but effective.

Hope that gives you a few things to consider, I'm sure you'll get other ideas soon...

[aMei]

Thanks so much for responding!!! Hubby actually decided to just start trying to swaddle with sh/pat on Sunday for a nap. Since it went better than expected, as in ds actually slept, we've kept it up. When we started with ds 1, he would cry for the entire nap duration sometimes. (Ds1 is 3 years old). So, my biggest concern now is that ds2 is now waking up almost as often as he does during the day.

Tonight, we last fed at 8pm. Df at 10:15pm (both sides). Woke up at 1:50am and nursed both sides. Woke again at 4:15, currently nursing. What's happening??? He had been only waking up only once for a few weeks now.

[trimbler]

Well done

So, my biggest concern now is that ds2 is now waking up almost as often as he does during the day.

Sorry, not sure what you mean by this? I'm probably being dim! How's he sleeping now?

Two thoughts on the night feeds:
1) you may be in 3mo growth spurt territory, if he's feeding just as well in the day and also feeding more at night
2) I might try the df a little later if the last feed was at 8pm. I know you probably want to get to bed! But he may not have been so hungry at 2.25h after the bedtime feed, if you left it a little later he may take more and sleep a little longer - something to try?

[aMei]

He feeds on one breast and always less than 10 mins during the day. Nothing seems to have changed for during the day.

I changed his last EAS to EAES, so that it's a little earlier and will try a later df. I'll keep you posted.

Thank you for the suggestions!!

[aMei]

It's gotten worse! last feed was at 7:30pm and df at 10:15pm. He woke up at 12:20pm. Hubby was able to sh/pat him back to sleep, but he woke again at 1:40am. Nursed on both sides. Woke again 4am, sh/pat, woke again at 5:10am. Nursing both sides right now. What happened?!? It seems like this independent falling asleep during the day is making his night sleep bad?? Help!

[trimbler]

Oh dear, sorry you had a rough night Do you think he's getting much less sleep overall during the day with shh pat and so might be OT by BT? That's the only reason I can think of why shh pat could lead to worse nights, but remember it's only one night, tonight may be different. If you think OT is accumulating during the day, don't be afraid to APOP a nap or two, to get a little extra sleep so that he's not so tired at night.

So he's had df plus two other night feeds? How's he been feeding during the day? Is it possible he may be getting distracted during day time feeds and so not taking as much as before? There is a GS at 3mo so he may just be extra hungry for a few days, but if you think there are feeding issues then the breast feeding board would be a great place to post.

Well done on being able to shh pat him back to sleep though, do recognise that this is a good thing even though of course you'd rather he didn't wake in the first place!

Other things to consider - any signs of teething, gas or reflux which might be causing discomfort? There are so many reasons for night waking and last night may just have been a one off, just giving you all my thoughts in case there's anything you haven't already considered!

Hope you get some relief soon, you're doing really well