19 months old would not sleep lying down (Stood up sleeping for hours!!!)

[yujai]

We tried to continue sleep train our 19 months (after 2 weeks of sickness) yesterday with WI/WO. 
He cried for 15 minutes and fell asleep, woke around 1:30am and ended up stood up for 3.5 hours.  Tonight he was stood asleep (It's hilarious, his arms were wrapped between the crib rail to support himself) after 20 minutes of crying.

Should we go in and lay him down or just let him stood asleep??  My husband went in to lay him down after he stood asleep, but he just woke up and standing again before he left the room.

In previous sleep training, he would eventually sat down and lay on his back, so we knew he can do that but just rather standing up.

[Truly Blessed]

Hi Hun,

Oh bless his heart. If it continues you could try staying with him and keep lying him down every time he stands, until he gets bored and stays down, which is basically the 'Pick up, Put down' method without the pick up part. Mind you, having done that with a 10 month old, I will say it isn't easy on your back, and obviously a 19 month old is harder to lay down, especially if he has a strong will to stay standing, but it could be worth a try if necessary. Obviously that would mean you weren't doing WI/WO.

He sounds like a spirited little fella who doesn't like to give up! I can just imagine the scene 

Is there any reason he may be fearful of lying down ie: He's had an ear infection, so lying flat was hurting before  Just a thought.

(HUGS) 3.5 hours is a long time, feels like a lifetime during the night 

When you started ST before sickness, was that for the first time  Has he been an independent sleeper before 

x.

[yujai]

Thanks Sammysmammy!

Yes, he is very spirited, or I just call it stubborn!!  The 3.5 hours can probably kept going, but my husband it was enough and decided he should go in and pat him to sleep.  He was sleep train with pu/pd at 10 months, but one of us stayed in his room while he fell asleep.  It worked great until he had 8 teeth popped up at the same time 2 months ago.

I don't think he has an ear infection or teething (just got checked at his 18 month check up while he was sick).

[Truly Blessed]

Hi again Hun,

Yes, he is very spirited, or I just call it stubborn!!

We all have at some point lol.

So how are things 

Moving forward, how about going back to staying in the room and laying him down if he insists on standing, as previously suggested. Then go with Gradual Withdrawal again. After laying him down, sit by him facing away from him, with no interaction except your 'sleepy phrase' used sparingly.

What do you think 

Also take a look at this, this could well be the 18 month sleep regression, just a little late.

18 month sleep regression support thread - Part 2

You will find lots of support and ideas on how to move forward here. Those darn teeth cause so much trouble  .

(HUGS)

x.

[yujai]

[The aforementioned husband here. I'm using my wife's account]

Thanks again Sammysmammy!

That's essentially what I did last night.  After 4 hours of seeing him drifting in and out of sleep and crying occasionally while standing up, I gave in and went into his room to do the PD part of PU/Pd.  (Thanks for the suggestion!)
He was like a robot and would get up as soon as i took one step away from the crib.  In the end I had to put a hand on his back and hold him down.  He realized pretty quickly that I wasn't going to let him get up again (at least that's what I think), and I was able to move to my usual spot and sat on the floor next to the door.  He still complained for a while but eventually he fell asleep, only to wake up for good 5 hours later......

My wife and I have concluded that WI/WO isn't going to work for our DS, at lest not at this point.  I don't what has changed but what worked 4 weeks ago before he got sick isn't working anymore.  However, I'm not sure if Gradual Withdrawal is going to work either.  No matter how gradually we withdraw, at some point we'// have to make the switch from "in the room" to "out of the room", and that's where we got stuck on.  At BT, he can already fall asleep on his own without me doing anything as long as I stay in the room until he falls asleep, and I am already staying as far away from him and as close to the door possible.  (NW is a different story.  Most of the time even if I hold him until he falls back asleep, he would wake up as soon as I put him down.  If this repeats a few times then more often than not he would become wide awake and I would be dealing with a multi-hour struggle, which usually ends with me taking him out of his crib and sleeping on the floor with him.)

Any suggestion on how to take the final step and walk out of the room using Gradual Withdrawal?  Should I leave the door open and sit just outside of the room as an intermediate step? Should I still hold him to sleep or sleep on the floor with him during his NWs until I can walk out of the room at BT, or should I tackle both BT and NWs at the same time?

To provide some some context on my DS's situation, here's a bit of history on how he's been sleeping:
10 months: Used PU/PD to sleep train him.  Took 5 days. He started sttn afterwards (but we would stay in the room until he fell asleep). Life was good

12 months: 1 week of sleep regression due to a sudden bout of severe separation anxiety.  Back to normal after 1 week without any additional sleep training.

14 months: 1 week of sleep regression due to a mild cold.  Back to normal after 1 week without any additional sleep training.

15 months: Seamless transition from two naps to one nap.  After the transition, he took 15-20 mins to fall asleep, sttn for 11 hours, and took 2-hours nap. Life was glorious.

16 months: 6 weeks of sleep regression due to 8 teeth coming out at the same time, including 4 molars.

17.5 months: Used WI/WO to sleep train him.  Took 3 days, and he was finally back to sttn.  Unfortunately, he got sick after a week, and thus became another 4 weeks of sleep regression.

19 months: Where we are at now.  WI/WO has completely failed.

20 months: DD is due in about 4 weeks......

[Truly Blessed]

Hi there,

To provide some some context on my DS's situation, here's a bit of history on how he's been sleeping:
10 months: Used PU/PD to sleep train him.  Took 5 days. He started sttn afterwards (but we would stay in the room until he fell asleep). Life was good

So this is great, I did the same with DS at the same age. The next step after this would have been to use GW until you're out of the room, to promote completely independent sleep.

You really have a grip on your DS history!  and looking at it, you guys have done a great job. I think the only thing that perhaps hasn't helped is staying with him after the initial PU/PD sleep training.

My wife and I have concluded that WI/WO isn't going to work for our DS, at lest not at this point.

For many LO's WI/WO isn't successful until older, and that includes our DS, it would make him crazy, so I have always stuck with GW.

However, I'm not sure if Gradual Withdrawal is going to work either.  No matter how gradually we withdraw, at some point we'// have to make the switch from "in the room" to "out of the room", and that's where we got stuck on.

If you are already at the door, the next step would be to stand in the doorway with it closed as much as possible. After that outside the door with it open a little, still using the sleepy phrase now and then so he knows you're there, and then you're out!

Could you post his routine for me, WU time, Nap time and BT, just in case there's anything I can see that may be adding to the issue.

Also are there any development issues that you can think of right now  walking, speech etc 

Also it's always good if whatever you're doing at night ST wise, you are also doing for his nap.

Having said all that, I can tell you that during this 18 month regression, most parents end up APOP'ing (accidental parenting on purpose) in whatever way gets not only LO and but themselves also, the most sleep. So I suspect, your hand on his back in order to help DS get the message isn't a bad thing, if that is what gets him to sleep fastest.

Remember once a LO is ST, they can always go back to how things were, although it doesn't feel like it during these times, trust me I know  . Once things improve, then maybe go with GW and get out of the room.

IIWM, I would always try to do things the way you prefer, erring on the hopeful side  and if it fails, then switch it up, does that make sense 

I know this won't make you feel any better, but as you can see from the support thread, this regression is one of if not THE hardest, I remember it well  and this too shall pass. Just not the best timing for you guys  .

(HUGS) and good luck for tonight, finger's crossed you can start to get DS on track before baby 2 arrives!

x.

[yujai]

Thanks again!

We now went back to GW.  LO would start crying and want to stand up once put in crib, so my hubby has been putting his hands to keep him down, then hubby will sit close to the door and LO fell asleep within 15 min.   Our first priority right now would be keep him down and went back to were we were before.

For nap, I didn't change a thing. He has been fell asleep on his own calmly within 10-15 min while I sit on the rocker adjacent to the crib (pretty much the longest distance inside the room).  It's also kind of strange that he is always calm and happy during BT routine as if he forgets what happened last few nights, but cries bloody murder as soon as he is placed in crib.  Yet he is super happy on the next day, even the night when he only slept for 5 hours.  His night sleep doesn't seem to affect his daytime energy level either.....

His usual schedule:
6:30/7:00 Wake up (85% of time is around 6:30)
12:00/12:30 Naptime (usually 1.5 hours, but he can go longer to 2.5 hours in his carseat even the car is parked in garage)
7:00 BT routine begins (15 min quiet time, bath, story, last sip of water, put in sleeping bag, kiss goodnight and put in crib)
8:00 BT (usually asleep by 8pm)

As for development issues, yes, he learned to say a few words and started to sound like he is really talking (not real words, but sounds like a sentence) for a few weeks.  We having always been bilingual, not sure if this is the another reason.

[Truly Blessed]

Hi Guys,

Hi routine looks good to me 

Our first priority right now would be keep him down and went back to were we were before.

Absolutely, a great place to get to, then you can work on getting out of the room.

As for development issues, yes, he learned to say a few words and started to sound like he is really talking (not real words, but sounds like a sentence) for a few weeks.  We having always been bilingual, not sure if this is the another reason.

For sure his little head will be working over time! How fabulous you are a bilingual family  what a gift for your LO. I worked in Spain an awful lot and I loved to hear the little ones mashing up sentences of the 2 languages lol. I witnesssed my friends DD when she suddenly realised she was speaking 2! When she was a toddler she used to point at the sky and say "Mirar! aeroplane Mama!"

Keeping everything crossed for you guys. Here for you.x.