Author Topic: Almost 1yo and nights are awful - HELP!  (Read 3632 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Love, laughter, & PJs

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 152
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 8057
  • Formerly kmk512
  • Location: USA
Almost 1yo and nights are awful - HELP!
« on: November 01, 2014, 14:13:40 pm »
DD2 will be 1 next week and our nights are awful. They always have been. She has woken every 1-3h her entire life. The last week or so it's been more like every hour. We are in the 2-1 and she is teething again but even when things are good the longest she goes is 3h. She does nurse a lot at night, so I struggle with taking that away but I know she doesn't really need it and/or she could eat more during the day.

DH and I can't decide on a strategy for trying to get her to sleep more. We both feel like it's reasonable for her to nurse once a night but we can't agree on how to manage that. I could sleep in the basement and he could do GW with her. But we always say they shouldn't then nurse until they are asleep but DH's point (and it's well taken, really) is that if she wakes and wants to nurse she simply will not go to sleep. In the past she has screamed for a couple of hours. Then he gets all mad and I end up nursing her and it feels like the whole thing is for nothing.

So then I wonder if we just say no more night nursing. But then I feel bad since I feel like she really does need it (I think?) and I wouldn't mind nursing her once a night. But this every hour crap is for the birds. I cannot do it anymore.

I do nurse her pretty much every time she wakes. I know that's a prop. If I don't she will scream. And scream. And scream. So historically I've just done it.

She is doing much better with independent sleep during the day. We can finally, as of the last couple of weeks, put her down and walk out. She will fuss and whine but usually goes down independently pretty quickly. But the nighttime she can't put herself back. Sometimes I wait to see if she will go back and she never does, she escalates until I go in and nurse.

We are in the 2-1, here's what her days roughly look like

7- A
10 -S
1030 - A
130 - S
3 - A
615/630 - S

Thoughts? I just don't know what to do but we have to do something. TIA!
*Kate*



Offline cath~

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 152
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 10058
  • Location: UK
Re: Almost 1yo and nights are awful - HELP!
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2014, 15:03:17 pm »
((Hugs))

I think I could write almost an identical post for H ::)

We're in the same position really. She settles indepently most of the time for naps and BT now (since about 2 weeks ago). I'm just trying to summon up the energy to deal with the NWs. Like you say, it's hard to know which and how many NW to feed.. :-\   I manage to resettle up until about 11/12 now without feeding but after that it's much trickier.

You say she settles independently for naps. How about BT? Does she settle independently for that or do you bf?

If BT isn't independent then I'd def work on that.

Have you tried the gentle removal plan? It can be used for BT and NWs. 
Gentle Removal Plan

However, if you've recently made some good progress with IS for naps, it might be easier to tackle the NWs now. When I resettle H I just do it in her crib with sleepy phrase/shhh and maybe a hand on her if she needs it.  (Although teething is throwing a spanner in the works with that the last few nights).

Have you tried forming any new sleep associations for her? Eg a lovey, song, shh, sleepy phrase, hand...  If you do perhaps one of these could be useful for NWs.

Sorry, no amazing advice, but will be interested to hear what anyone else suggests.
DD1 - 8 years old
DD2 - 5 years old

Offline Love, laughter, & PJs

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 152
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 8057
  • Formerly kmk512
  • Location: USA
Re: Almost 1yo and nights are awful - HELP!
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2014, 15:28:34 pm »
She settles independently for BT now too. It takes 5-20 min but she does do it.

She has a lovey that she's only starting to care about lately.

If DH tries to settle her she just screams and screams. :(

We pretty much did gradual withdrawal for stopping rocking to sleep. It worked ok. I'll look at the gradual removal, can't remember the details of that one.

Also if I try to give her only one side to nurse or if I take her off before she's done she screams and will not settle for sleep.

She is quite opinionated, this one!
*Kate*



Offline Love, laughter, & PJs

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 152
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 8057
  • Formerly kmk512
  • Location: USA
Re: Almost 1yo and nights are awful - HELP!
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2014, 15:32:19 pm »
Ok the GR is Pantley's plan. I don't think that will work for us mostly because a lot of times she isn't totally asleep when she's done nursing. Sometimes she is but sometimes I put her back and she IS awake and goes back nicely. But if I don't nurse her she is mad and screams. Sometimes she sleeps through the nursing a, though, so iguess I could try it then.

But I feel like the nursing is more of a prop to settle her back rather than help her actually fall asleep of that makes sense? Like when she wakes she wants that contact befor she goes back and she's mad if she doesn't get it (and I think she is legitamately hungry a lot of the time too since she doesn't eat much during the day) rather than always needing the boob to go to sleep.
*Kate*



Offline cath~

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 152
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 10058
  • Location: UK
Re: Almost 1yo and nights are awful - HELP!
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2014, 07:25:04 am »
Yeah. Ikwym. It's similar with H too - she just wants the bf *before* she goes back to sleep. Not to actual sleep.

Wrt being hungry I guess it's a vicious circle - she's prob not that hungry in the day due to BFing at night?

I know you say she screams if you try to settle her w/o BFing but I wonder if you just have to power on through the screaming for a few days (how long have you tried for?) so she really accepts that this is how you will settle her at NWs now?  Maybe it'll just take longer before she accepts it? :-\

I'll see if some one else has other suggns...
« Last Edit: November 02, 2014, 07:32:01 am by cathn »
DD1 - 8 years old
DD2 - 5 years old

Offline Shiv52

  • The Diplomat
  • Global Moderator
  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 585
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 25307
  • Location:
Re: Almost 1yo and nights are awful - HELP!
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2014, 09:00:19 am »
How long is she napping for at those nap times?  My first thought is her day is short for doing the 2-1 and A time is 3 hours?  I do think there is a prop issue with the feeding but I wonder if really she needs more A time in the day and a slightly longer day to make her tireder at night.  And the schedule she's on at the minute is only being maintained because her nights are so bad and she's not getting enough restorative sleep. If she slept the whole night or even 2 x 6 hour stints there is no way she'd be really to nap after 3 hours A time YK?





Offline Erin M

  • The Sentinel
  • Global Moderator
  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 521
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 16463
  • Location: USA - the midwest...
Re: Almost 1yo and nights are awful - HELP!
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2014, 14:15:49 pm »
I agree with Shiv about the bad nights creating her daytime schedule.  And I'll also say that she's most likely not eating enough during the day because she's taking in so many calories at night.  I think you're probably just in alfor a few really bad nights that you'll have to stick with -- with your shifts do you have the ability know you'll be home with her for a few days so you can nurse more frequently during the day to make up the loss in calories at night?

Offline Love, laughter, & PJs

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 152
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 8057
  • Formerly kmk512
  • Location: USA
Re: Almost 1yo and nights are awful - HELP!
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2014, 14:54:16 pm »
Wrt being hungry I guess it's a vicious circle - she's prob not that hungry in the day due to BFing at night?
This is definitely possible. I wonder if she would eat more if I refused to feed her at night. Even though that makes me a little sad!

I know you say she screams if you try to settle her w/o BFing but I wonder if you just have to power on through the screaming for a few days (how long have you tried for?) so she really accepts that this is how you will settle her at NWs now?  Maybe it'll just take longer before she accepts it?
In the past it's been up to 3 hours. :( After that we just gave in and I fed her. It was terrible. We've probably done that a total of 3 times over the last few months. I don't really know how long she would go if we kept on. I guess we're going to have to find out. :(

How long is she napping for at those nap times? 
I wake her at 30 min for the first nap and she sleeps 1.5-2h for the second nap. Yesterday we did 3h15 for the second A (after 30 min nap) and she slept 2h for the second nap.

And the schedule she's on at the minute is only being maintained because her nights are so bad and she's not getting enough restorative sleep. If she slept the whole night or even 2 x 6 hour stints there is no way she'd be really to nap after 3 hours A time YK?
Yeah that's a very good point. I guess I'm stuck in this cycle, then. I did 3h15 for this morning's first A time since she was up so early with the time change. I'm about to wake her now. I'm going to try to stretch the next A time a bit so the night won't be too early after DST. I'm thinking 3h30. I just don't think she can handle much more without an OT nap.

Last night she was up 4 times. DH fed her the first time since I was still at work. Went right back down without crying. The next 3 times I fed her and she screamed bloody murder when I put her back in the crib. Settled herself after a few min of crying each time but it's so awful.

So do we just need to stop the NF entirely, you think? Push through the few terrible days and hope it all sorts itself out?
*Kate*



Offline Love, laughter, & PJs

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 152
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 8057
  • Formerly kmk512
  • Location: USA
Re: Almost 1yo and nights are awful - HELP!
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2014, 14:56:12 pm »
I think you're probably just in alfor a few really bad nights that you'll have to stick with -- with your shifts do you have the ability know you'll be home with her for a few days so you can nurse more frequently during the day to make up the loss in calories at night?
That's a really good point. I'm off a few days this week but I'm taking her to NYC for the day on Tues to see DH's family, so I don't feel like it's fair to do this kind of thing that night. Is that silly? Because otherwise I'm off for 4 days and can be with her the whole time. :/ Next time would probably be a couple of weeks from now
*Kate*



Offline Shiv52

  • The Diplomat
  • Global Moderator
  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 585
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 25307
  • Location:
Re: Almost 1yo and nights are awful - HELP!
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2014, 15:02:43 pm »
What I did with M was eliminated the NFs across a couple of weeks. So at 1yo she really should be going 6 hours without a feed. Likely much more yk? So what I did was started with midnight. Any wakings before I resettled. And you have to resettle and keep going until they are back to sleep even if it hits your 'target time'. Once you start resettling you have to make sure you don't give in or it will be for nothing.

So resettle before midnight then after that I just fed. After a couple of nights I moved it to 1am and so on every few nights.

 honestly  the first few nights were the worst. Once she realised there wasn't a feed coming every time it got much easier.

And yes until you sort the night feeds you'll likely not have much luck lengthening a times or day x





Offline Love, laughter, & PJs

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 152
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 8057
  • Formerly kmk512
  • Location: USA
Re: Almost 1yo and nights are awful - HELP!
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2014, 15:29:29 pm »
And you have to resettle and keep going until they are back to sleep even if it hits your 'target time'. Once you start resettling you have to make sure you don't give in or it will be for nothing.
See this is the trouble point for DH and me. I say this and then she screams for hours and he comes storming in saying, "She is NEVER going to go to sleep without eating! She is hungry! She is mad! This is stupid!" Then I give in and feed her and it really is all for nothing. In some ways I do feel like he has a point. Once she's been up for hours screaming it really is crazy to think she will ever actually go to sleep. It certainly feels like she never will when you've been in there for 3 hours and she is still going at it crying. :( What we did those times was at least tried to get her to stop crying before I fed her, even if she wasn't totally asleep. Is that totally bogus, you think? I know the logic is that she WILL eventually go to sleep but at what point does that become wishful thinking?
*Kate*



Offline katie80

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 220
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 11169
  • Location: USA
Re: Almost 1yo and nights are awful - HELP!
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2014, 20:04:13 pm »
(((Hugs))), Kate... also in your shoes a bit. :P

See this is the trouble point for DH and me. I say this and then she screams for hours and he comes storming in saying, "She is NEVER going to go to sleep without eating! She is hungry! She is mad! This is stupid!"
This is why I've always had to be the one to do the last push in dropping NFs. DH does almost anything to help me with the kids at night, but almost always ends up bringing them to me after awhile (he only lasts an hr or so, LOL). So, each time I've bitten the bullet and done it. Claire didn't really have a prop... I was 'told' she didn't need to eat anymore at night, so we stopped (I was really naive and probably wouldn't do that again, she was only 7mo! ::)). G definitely did and I did the same as Shiv, started with a cut-off each night. The feeds before midnight and then 2-3am weren't too hard to get rid of, but that last early morning feed was difficult. I just did whatever I could to get him to settle without a feed and without taking him out of the crib. I sat next to him, rubbed his back, talked to him, got in the crib with him, whatever. I think it was a couple nights of 2-2.5hr of getting him to go back to sleep, but he did it.

I know it doesn't feel like it will ever end, but if you keep feeding it will never get better. I tried more than once with G too! I didn't drop the last early morning feed til 16mo. :P I'd get a pillow and blanket and just get comfy on her floor and prepare for a couple terrible nights. Hopefully, your DH can steel himself to do it, but if not, it is possible for you to do it too. I think I was more stubborn and ready to outlast them, because ultimately it was me who was always getting up anyway.

Is she teething right now? The first couple times I tried with G, I wasn't sure he was in pain from teething or not, so wasn't successful. Once I knew he wasn't, I was better able to stick with it.

Here to hold your hand! :-*



Offline nona

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 95
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 9622
  • Location:
Re: Almost 1yo and nights are awful - HELP!
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2014, 20:19:10 pm »
does she take a bottle (I'm assuming she does) - what if your DH brings in a bottle in the MOTN instead of you feeding her?

she will def make up the calories during the day!
heather




Offline Shiv52

  • The Diplomat
  • Global Moderator
  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 585
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 25307
  • Location:
Re: Almost 1yo and nights are awful - HELP!
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2014, 21:47:56 pm »
 My good friends DD screamed the first night for 6 hours. 6 whole hours. The next night was 5 then 3 then 15 mins. But it did take them to follow through. If you think you will give in I wouldn't start. Sometimes you just can't do it until you are determined x





Offline Erin M

  • The Sentinel
  • Global Moderator
  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 521
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 16463
  • Location: USA - the midwest...
Re: Almost 1yo and nights are awful - HELP!
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2014, 03:11:29 am »
I would think that she could make it all night without feeding but at the same time, I can see Shiv's point about feeding at midnight.  It really doesn't sound like she's used to taking her calories in during the day so it will really be a big shift for her.  The key is really going to be sticking with it though -- I think you're going to have a couple of really ugly nights on your hands, but I will say that at her age it seems to take a good 3 nights and then things get better (at least that seemed to be what people found while I was modding NWings and BFing a few years back) -- but if you and dh aren't going to stick with it, then I wouldn't start (not said to be mean, it's just that you have to be ready for it or it's not going to happen - I'm sure she's smart enough to realize it if you're being even a little inconsistent!).  I don't think I'd tackle this when you're going to NYC - I think the distance is far enough that you're going to get thrown off a bit anyway - and now the time change on top of everything - though I almost find that helps sometimes because you've already got some shifting taking place.  If nothing else, I'd just warn dh that she will need to eat more often.  Will she take the bottle readily or do you think she's holding out for you a little?