Author Topic: Bad sleeper gets worse  (Read 864 times)

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Offline reubenwilfred

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Bad sleeper gets worse
« on: November 01, 2014, 15:47:07 pm »
Reuben is a bad sleeper. He's 2 years old. I didn't do the sleep part of EASY with him as i couldn"t handle the battle that would have occured. He was a highly spirited baby that fought sleep at every interval. He would only ever nap for one sleep cycle, although since he's got older he sleeps for much longer. If he gets too upset he is sick. He still does this. It's a nightmare. If he cries proper tears for more than about 10 minutes he will be sick everywhere.

I love him dearly even though he's a total pain in the bum. He has co-slept much of his little life and struggles sleeping by himself.When he goes to sleep at night I get in bed with him and wait for him to drop off which can take about an hour. I wish i had managed to get him to fall asleep by himself, but looking back i just didn't have the mental and emotional strength to go through it.

Anyway, the new challenge is middle of the night tantrums. He wakes up around 01:30am and starts to moan for his train or his car or his dummy, or he shouts mama! My husband is normally in bed with him at this time as i have an 8 week old baby i am breast feeding. After a while of Reub's moaning he starts crying and then this leads to a tantrum. I mean a scream down the house tantrum that lasts for about an hour. He generally wants to go downstairs and watch postman pat on dvd. We generally don't let him unless he's got teething issues. If we say no, he goes mental and then after about an hour of screaming his head off in a rage he'll get into bed with me and the baby and go to sleep. Last night it happened at 1:30am and again at 5am.

SOMEBODY HELP ME PLEASE,

Thanks

Kate

Offline jessmum46

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Re: Bad sleeper gets worse
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2014, 19:15:27 pm »
Hi Kate, welcome and sorry you're struggling :(. I see you have a post about your new LO over on EASY too which I'll pop over to soon.  It strikes me that you may be best given DS2 is so young at the moment to do what you need to do to survive (as it were) with him and think about making a plan to tackle Reuben's sleep first.  I suspect that will then make it far easier to get started with DS2 and shh pat etc, what do you think?  Is your DH willing and able to help out?

Could you post Reuben's routine here with WU, nap and bedtime?  Is he in a bed or cot?

Has he ever gone to sleep independently?  Have you ever tried any kind of sleep training in the past?

I think gradual withdrawal will be the way to go, and be probably you need to be prepared for a 2-3 week time investment.  There's a link about gradual withdrawal here (ignore the information on WIWO - this won't be appropriate unless he's been an independent sleeper previously): Walk In/Walk Out vs. The Gradual Withdrawal Method (HOW TO CHOOSE). There is a case study of a co-sleeping toddler in the BW solves all your problems book which I think involved starting out on a blow-up mattress in LOs room and then gradually moving on from there, but I will look it up for you (or even better have a look yourself if you can get hold of a copy).

How does that sound?


Offline weaver

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Re: Bad sleeper gets worse
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2014, 20:33:59 pm »
Hi Kate,
you might like to join in the conversation about 'raising your spirited child' on this thread
Raising the spirited child 0-4yrs thread no. 4

And if you haven't read it, the book 'Raising Your Spirited Thread' has been very helpful for a lot of BWers.  Though I doubt you've time at the moment, it might be nice to have it in the house!
*Anne*, loving mama to a honeybee (2010) and a sweetpea (2012).  BF for 4 proud years.


Offline reubenwilfred

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Re: Bad sleeper gets worse
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2014, 07:36:50 am »
Hi there,
Thanks for your replies. Last night was a total nightmare again. Reuben went mental at 12:30am and we ended up giving in and he watched postman pat for at least an hour downstairs. He then got into bed with me so I had Wilfred one side, me in the middle and reub's on the end! Reuben then fell out of bed (which he's never done before) at 6:30am which woke everyone up.

Reuben's routine is as follows.

Wake up : 6 -6:30am

He normally plays and watches some TV in the morning. We go out at about 9:30am. We come back to the house for 12./he'll either fall.asleep in the car or he'll stay awake. If he's awake i take him out in the pushchair after lunch and he Naps in there.

Nap - 45 mins to and hour and a half.

I never let him sleep past 2pm or else the evening gets messed up.

Afternoon has to involve going out to a park of somewhere he can run around.

Dinner - 5pm

Wind down time from about 6pm.

Bed and bath 6:45pm

Into bed around 7:15, 3 stories.

Reub's turns the light out for me. He is in a double bed. He has been since he was 1
 There are 2 reasons. He is a massive child. He's about the size of a 3 and a half.year old. He's growing out of 3-4/year old clothes already. He hated the cot and used to get caught up in it. He's a very active sleeper and the double bed means he can move around without falling out.

When he goes off to sleep I am in bed with him.

When my husband goes to bed he gets in bed with him.and they co-sleep.

Reuben's comfort is a sleeve. He wants to put his foot or arm up mine or my husband a sleeve. He calls it his peeve! I tried some no cry techniques a long time ago and tryies giving him a lovey but he wasn't interested. He's terrified of teddy bears or anything with a face. If you try to give him a bear he says no no no and pushes it away. He has a green train he loves. He is crazy for trains. We spend a lot of time in the train station watching trains go by in the afternoon.

I'll have a look at the link about spirited toddler, but I think you are right in the sense that I need to improve reubs's sleep first before I tackle wilfred.

Thanks so much for the support

Kate

Offline reubenwilfred

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Re: Bad sleeper gets worse
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2014, 09:19:15 am »
Just to add a couple of things I just thought of. Reuben has never fallen asleep by himself unless he is in the car or pushchair. He has a dummy which he loves and I don't feel I could sever from him. He currently has 4 molars coming through which is making matters worse. 2 have come through, 2 still haven't and it's causing a lot of pain. He spends time saying "teeth hurt" to me. He is very dribbly. I give him ibroprofen for his teeth which seens to help. These are the last teeth to come, once they're through he'll have a full set.

Before Wilfred arrived reub's was sleeping till about 3:00am before I was getting into bed with him. Ever since his brother has arrived Reuben's been worse than ever,

Thanks again

Kate

Offline jessmum46

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Re: Bad sleeper gets worse
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2014, 19:10:37 pm »
How old is he exactly?  Closer to 2 or 3?

I wonder if he could well be OT at bedtime and that's part of why he struggles to settle, that's quite a long day on a fairly short nap.  However if he is low sleep needs or closer to 3yo it may well be some 1-0 issues are adding to your troubles and he's actually needing a consistently shorter nap.  Do you notice that he settles quicker on days where he has a longer or shorter nap?  Does he ever skip his nap completely?  Have you ever tried an earlier bedtime?

Ther are also other things going on for him right now, the arrival of a sibling is MASSIVE for toddlers and can disturb the sleep of even the most angelic of sleepers.  Add to that molars and disturbed sleep is somewhat inevitable.  However I do think you could start to work on a gradual withdrawal plan to get him sleeping in his own bed and stop co-sleeping if that's what you all want.

Having re-read my BWSAYP book, I'd suggest something like:
The day you decide to start, talk to him about how tonight he will be sleeping in his own bed on his own.  (Keep the dummy definitely for now - that's a comfort item and I wouldn't be getting rid of it at this age).  But reassure him that Daddy will be right there in the room with him.  Get Daddy to put a blow-up bed/mattress on the floor next to Reuben's bed. (I say Daddy because he is going to need to be there all night to begin with and you can't do that if you have a newborn to feed).
At bedtime, do your routine as usual and have cuddles on the bed.  You can give him one of your items of clothing with sleeves to snuggle if that's what he likes.  But explain that he will be sleeping on his bed, and Daddy will be on the mattress.  Daddy needs to go to bed at the same time as Reuben - Tracy's suggestion was to take a torch and book in with him so he can read once Reuben is asleep if he's not ready to sleep himself at that point.
Daddy should tuck Reuben in, get into his own bed and then lights out.
Reuben will almost inevitably have a massive tantrum, and try and get in with Daddy.  Daddy needs to calmly but firmly return Reuben to his own bed, and then get back on his mattress.  Repeat repeat repeat until Reuben goes to sleep.  This may take hours - and Daddy needs to be prepared for that.
If Reuben wakes at night, repeat repeat repeat. 
The first night Daddy should expect not to get a lot of rest but staying consistent will be absolutely key.
I would do exactly the same for nights two and three.
Night four Daddy could get up and leave once Reuben goes to sleep, but should return and stay if he wakes in the night.
Hopefully he will be getting the message by now, and Daddy will have to go in less over the next few nights.
The next step will be taking Daddy's mattress out of the room.  In the BWSAYP book Tracy does this by talking to the child in question during dinner time about how tonight we will do the same routine as always, but Daddy will set a timer (for 3 mins) and when the timer goes off its the end of cuddles and Daddy will leave.
You would expect Reuben to protest a lot when Daddy leaves while he is awake, but Daddy should go back in and return Reuben to bed before leaving again.  Repeat repeat repeat until he goes to sleep.  Again this may take a very long time the first night, but you should see huge improvement in a few nights if you are consistent.

What do you think?