Author Topic: first 24hrs, are we on the right track? QUESTIONS (routine, short naps, pu/pd)  (Read 1683 times)

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Offline nurse2003

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Hi all
LO is 6 mo
Long story short, never had much of a routine, fed on avg. q3h but on demand too, hx of reflux and belly issues (fixed) had surgery at 3mo, did lots of baby wearing and naps in carrier, starting using soother in last three week.
Current - mama needs sanity!
So we have started to get into a 4hr easy and took out soother and doing pu/pd to get to sleep and also is a horrible short napper (3omin) and overall crab apple (I think in a constant OT mode)
So here's what we have done since last night
S: 640 (took about 10min of pu/pd to settle post nursing and no soother)
  woke up at 710 - 30 min of pu/pd  (many times he doesn't stop crying when picked up!! QUESTION - conflicting info - in one spot book says put down as soon as they stop crying, in another says within 2-3 min as you see them calming down, which is it?)
E 1115
 then woke up at approx times 1220 130 230  each time took about 20-30 min of pu/pd
E 330 (originally I had planned to not nurse at all from 11-6 but figured with so much change right now it might be too much to go ALL cold turkey with everything)
E 6, slightly slept
A 640
S 825 (was asleep in like 5 min)
 slept til 0905  did 30 min of pu/pd tried APOP with soother, was almost sleeping many times and kept waking when PD attempt
E 0935 (thought I'd push to a gradual 4hr easy but trying a 3.5 the first day to deal with short nap issue - right, wrong??)
wind down 1040 (since he had been awake really since 0905 but may have made this too soon but was dealing with older LO having to go to bday party)
S 1050 (15min of pu/pd) so actually down at 1105 and awake in 10 min!  10 min of pu/pd and slept like 7 more min!
I think changed him and dressed him and put him in car with soother (APOP) to go to bday party and he slept for another 45 min.
was awake at 1245
E 115
S 215-245 (bad timing leaving party on my part, didn't think he would sleep in car, thought we'd make it home for nap!)
15 min pu/pd attempt to make nap longer but was rather babbly and awake and thought the 30 min may have been enough after a shortened awake time (right or wrong here?)
A 245

Slightly irritable right now (I think he's teething to boot!)
Was gonna feed around 4-430 ish and depending on when I think he needs to sleep again for last cat nap....
He usually heads to the bath around 530-6 then pj's, nurses and bed (for almost 2 weeks i don't let him fall asleep nursing but gets drowsy)

So am I overall on the right track?
Are there things i'm doing that are not right?
During pu/pd to calm i tend to sing the alphabet over and over and over and when pd i keep singing and back away slowly - right or wrong here?

TIA for any extra advice/help!

I want this to work!

Offline weaver

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If you think he is in pain or teething, sleep training is usually not on the cards, as the discomfort basically makes it impossible for him to learn, and also discomfort, fever and all that can knock sleep needs all over the place.

The other thing to say is that PU/PD is a method of last resort.  First of all you work on your routine, get the times right, support independent sleep and, if all that doesn't work, use PU/PD.  Have a read here:
10 Reasons You Cannot Use Pu/Pd

HTH
*Anne*, loving mama to a honeybee (2010) and a sweetpea (2012).  BF for 4 proud years.


Offline nurse2003

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I just feel there is always "something" in our lives that makes it not the right time.
He has never responded to ssh pat. I do try to console before picking up but it does nothing.....that's why I've gone to pu/pd. but certainly open in ways to soothe him because I'm outta of ideas!!

How do I get routine and times right with a 30 min napper that's always cranky?!

I'm really desperate for change. We will be home as much as is possible in next two weeks to make this a reality.   I'm seriously struggling with life overall from a constant crabby baby and demands of life and two older kids. I need this change and need to make it happen. I want a happy rested baby

Offline weaver

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Oh dear :(

Well, listen, maybe you need to get over to the EASY forum and get folks looking at your routine.  Getting A times right is the first major step to getting naps right. I don't know which end of 6 mo he is but average A for late 5 mos/early 6 mos is about 2 hr 30 to 3 hr, and for late 6 mos around 2 hr 45 to 3 hr 15.   

Short naps can also be often due to overstimulation, so that is an easy one to maybe act on now. 

Do you have a good wind-down for him?  Depending on his personality that could be crucial for him. (see below)

Here are some links that might be useful at this stage:
Teaching Sleep- Tips from the boards
What does a good wind down consist of (Includes 4S ritual)
What are A times and how do they fit into the EASY routine?

And I would suggest looking at his personality type, since you say he's always cranky, it might tip you off to things that could work. My LO1 was a touchy baby for example, so he would be super cranky if OT or OS. 
The BW "Know Your Baby Quiz"

These are all things you can work on even if he is teething.
*Anne*, loving mama to a honeybee (2010) and a sweetpea (2012).  BF for 4 proud years.


Offline nurse2003

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Thank you. W I'll read these
I thought this was the EASY forum....

He is jusy 6mo but corrected 5mo

I've never been good at figuring out proper activity to avoid over stim....and I find even trying to wind down some days he's already crying :(

Offline weaver

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Yes, you're right, you're on the EASY forum.  Sorry, tired me! I thought you were on the PU/PD board, I'm switching between boards too quickly!

For 5 mos, you're looking at 2- 2 hr 30 average A. 

Avoiding OS, it just means keeping things really low key for the last part of A time.  You need to observer your own LO and see what is too much for him, or what is ok.  Tracy told a story the point of which was to say that even a mobile hanging over their heads, or a baby gym, can be too much sometimes.   One nice way of gently moving from A time towards naps is to pop him in a sling if you have one. 

So can you post your routine? A real one not an ideal one!
« Last Edit: November 01, 2014, 21:08:19 pm by weaver »
*Anne*, loving mama to a honeybee (2010) and a sweetpea (2012).  BF for 4 proud years.


Offline nurse2003

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I really appreciate the help :)

I can't say we have a set routine, in the last six weeks we have travelled a lot and poor little man has had to come along for the ride.
Generally I can say this is what he has done pre trying to start a set EASY and get all naps in his own bed

I will just ball park with average times best i can because I admit we haven't been strict to time and i know that's a problem

E 630am
A 645/7
S 830
A 9
E 930 (ish)
A 10
S 1130ish
A 12
S 1/130ish (this one has start in own bed for 30 min then gotten resettled in carrier for another hour then often will E and fall asleep for another 30 to get a 2hr ish nap
E 3
A 330
530 - bath, nurse bed by 6-630

This is the best I can figure he does on most days.  some days are completely off of this, depending on appts and being out and if he sleeps in car etc
I've officially committed in the last 12 days to trying to focus on time and routine and heading for S at the 2hr awake mark etc but admit I should have stayed home more.
Some days aren't even close to this...
but generally I find he does 2 30 min naps in a.m and a longer one (with props) in afternoon.  There are times where he only takes 4 30 min cat naps all day!

A varies, he plays with toys on a blanket or in exersaucer, he loves the jolly jumper, sometimes he lays was watches a mobile, or we go outside for a walk in the stroller, if daddy is around daddy tends to just pace the house with him in his arms more then I do (cuz it honestly irks me to have to do this!)

wind down - i read the post, he's too old to swaddle....  I am trying to be consistent now and take him to the room (still sleeping in our room), there is an air filter on with white noise, curtains pulled and sometime he starts crying as soon as we go in!  We usually walk aorund and sing songs, sometimes if he's calm enough I'll read him a story and then I lay him down, quite often he's crying already.....

As for doing stuff other then PU/PD - What do I do! (didn't find that link provided much answers) he's crying so loud, so I simply just sit there with my hand on his belly and attempt to console over the screams???

I really appreciate your help on this...
Will do the quiz, pretty sure he's touchy....

Offline weaver

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Alright.  I'm going to hold off til you tell me if he turned out touchy or not.  If he is, then I have a few comments on above. :)
*Anne*, loving mama to a honeybee (2010) and a sweetpea (2012).  BF for 4 proud years.


Offline weaver

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I'm off now for the night. 

If he is touchy, you might want to look here:
Support thread for raising touchy babies - part 2
*Anne*, loving mama to a honeybee (2010) and a sweetpea (2012).  BF for 4 proud years.


Offline nurse2003

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Well slightly surprised but I found some very hard to answer and none of the answer suited him
But he scored 7 B and 7 c making him textbook touchy?!
Is that possible? Lol

Offline weaver

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Oh perfectly possible - there are all sorts of mixes!  I'm sure LO1 here was touchy textbook with a sprinkle of spirit,while LO2 is mostly an angel with a strong streak of spiritedness. :P

If he's touchy, I think you need to try to work with that. So what I was going to say was: touchies really love their routine, my touchy needed a really good predictable wind-down, and to avoid overstimulation like the plague.  Every baby is different, so these are just things from my experience which might help. 

His A times do sound pretty busy to me for a touchy  - have you tried just letting him lay on the blanket and kick/roll around/watch the world go by?  that might be something to do towards nap time.  Think of it as 'down time' for him.

As for wind-down, A times are reckoned from eyes open to eyes shut, so it might be that you are going to the bedroom a shade too late.  You're aiming for eyes shut around the 2 hr mark rather than into the room, iyswim.  Also, not accepting sh-pat is not uncommon in touchy and spirited LOs, just adjust to whatever he likes - a back rub and a hum worked a treat for my LO2, a firm hand and monotone words might work too.  It really is a question of what works for him.  Physical touch remained very important for LO1 in terms of comfort, so a hand on his back (eventually, started out with a hand on his arm/tummy) would always help him back to sleep in the cot.

He didn't sleep much outside of his cot, I have to say.  I think I'd try to stick with cot naps to start with and once you've got your routine going, work on ways of helping him sleep better on the move.  He's 5 mos corrected, so you're aiming for 2 naps plus a catnap for now, with the catnap probably being dropped in the coming month or so.

Just throwing ideas at you here.  Hope some of it is useful?

Really off now! Good night!
*Anne*, loving mama to a honeybee (2010) and a sweetpea (2012).  BF for 4 proud years.


Offline nurse2003

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Thank you
Look forward to talking more tomorrow

Oh nighttime. He's up anywhere from 1-4 hrs. Trying to not feed from 11-6 and not feed at all if it hasn't been a good 3-4 hrs

I'm all for naps in own bed and will try to focus on limiting pu/pd
What should I do at this point with the 30 min nap issue? Get up and adjust easy or try to put back to sleep?
I will try some more low key A time but usually by the close to wind down time he's already being held and paced and cranky and doesn't want to be put down or even let us sit down and hold him....
Tomorrow I will focus on doing the same thing for Wind down all day and give myself 15-30 min so he's asleep by the 2hr ish mark