Author Topic: LO 19 weeks early wake up/wake up at night  (Read 13277 times)

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Offline Ima shel Alon

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Re: LO 19 weeks early wake up/wake up at night
« Reply #60 on: January 14, 2015, 13:57:19 pm »
Ok, I will try that! How mich A time did your DS have before bedtime at almost 7 months?
Super short, sometimes 1.5h! But he was always ok.

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Offline NinNic

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Re: LO 19 weeks early wake up/wake up at night
« Reply #61 on: January 15, 2015, 20:51:29 pm »
Now we have tried earlier BT and continued with naps, but pm nap is not going well! I'm really tired of this nap! I honestly don't think she is tired enough for pm nap, when she fell asleep after 3h 50mins she slept longest (1h) before waking up otherwise she keeps waking after 35 mins. Do you not think she needs longer A time before pm nap?? She is not rolling in bed now she is just doing mantra trying to fall asleep and when she doesn't then she gets annoyed or starts talking wide awake. Should I not increase A time?

For the am nap I have also realized she needs a bit more than 3h 15mins to sleep full nap.

For bedtime even if we put her to bed earlier she still falls asleep after around 3h 15mins A time.

The NW around 2 am seems strange to me as she should be able to go longer with BF, she can during the day. What is your opinion in this?

She is waking later in morning, which seems like we are heading in the right direction. I do think the days are way too long still and I know she can do 7-19 days, which is better for all of us! Should I not try to cap pm nap and extend A time also? How much A time and how much cap nap with do you think?

We have had 2 months now of these A time increases with nap wakings etc., we had a lot of problems at BT when she refused to go to sleep after too short A time. It doesn't seem that she can go to sleep with less A time than 3h 15 mins. A while ago it was 3h A time before BT. She is 7 months on Monday.


These are our last days of EASY:

Continuing Monday 12 Jan:
DF 22:09
WU 2:05 BF 2:16 fell asleep around 2:45

Tuesday 13 Jan:
WU around 6:00 went in 6:15
E 7:08
S 9:12-10:47
E 11:17, top up 13:51
S 14:22 WU 15:13 patted 15:15-15:26 fell asleep 15:23 WU 15:30 patted 15:34-15:43 fell asleep 15:35-15:57
E 16:14, 17:56
Put to bed 18:35 fell asleep 19:12
WU 21:27 did DF
WU 1:40 BF 1:44 fell asleep 2:35
WU 5:50 fell asleep around 6:10

Wednesday 14 Jan:
Went in to wake her 6:50 had just woken up
E 7:30
S 10:02-11:22
E 11:48
S Put to bed 14:46 crying 15:00 patted fell asleep 15:11 WU 16:11 patted 16:12-16:19 fell asleep 16:14-16:41
E 16:49, 18:57
Put to bed 19:43 fell asleeo 20:00
DF 22:20
WU 1:55 BF didn’t seem hungry fell asleep 2:10

Thursday 15 Jan:
WU 6:40 went in 6:45
E 7:30
S Put to bed 9:55 crying patted fell asleep 10:07-11:38
E 12:05, top up 14:18
S Put to bed 15:10 did mantra then crying 15:21 patted fell asleep 15:26 WU 16:02 patted 16:03-16:23 fell asleep 16:06-16:56
E 17:02, 19:02
Put to bed 19:34 fell asleep 20:19
DF 22:26
WU around 1:25 did not BF fell asleep on her own 2:05
WU around 5:10 talking then annoyed 5:39 was not hungry cry patted 5:39-6:03 fell asleep 5:59
Woke her 7:32 am

I have also added what happened during the night above in EASY.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2015, 08:42:11 am by NinNic »

Offline katie80

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Re: LO 19 weeks early wake up/wake up at night
« Reply #62 on: January 16, 2015, 21:52:47 pm »
If you think 3h45-50min is what she needs second A time, then I'd try it for a week. It does seem like youre getting some UT wakings in the night, but I know for some babies, wakings like that can be OT as well. And honestly, I'm not sure about the pm nap either. A lot of LOs won't resettle and finish the nap if they're UT, but I guess you've tried all A times up to that point and were getting the same thing, so it's worth a try at a longer one. And if a 7-7 routine suits you best, then try that too.  Really, EASY is about making a routine that works for your LO and your family as a whole. Maybe, it could look something like this...

WU 7am
N1 10:15-11:45am
N2 3:30-4:30pm
BT 7/7:30pm

What do you think?



Offline Ima shel Alon

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Re: LO 19 weeks early wake up/wake up at night
« Reply #63 on: January 17, 2015, 16:24:03 pm »
I agree with Katie. I think that now that you noticed a certain pattern, i.e. she needs a certain amount of A time in the morning to get a good nap out of her and she needs a certain A time in the evening in order for her to get to bed, then you just need to calculate when the PM nap will be and how long it should be. If needed you can cap this nap to give her 3:15h A time before BT.
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Offline NinNic

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Re: LO 19 weeks early wake up/wake up at night
« Reply #64 on: January 19, 2015, 19:41:05 pm »
Katie, I have tried that routine for 4 days now, she wakes up after 35mins after 3h 50mins A time in pm. Last 2 days she doesn't even fall asleep after 3h 50mins more like after 4h-4h 7mins and still wakes after 35mins. Today I decided to increase A time to 4h 5mins still she didn't fall asleep until 4h 12mins (I always have to pat her now for pm nap for her to fall asleep or she is just talking or getting annoyed), but she slept through and I woke her after 1h. She does not seem tired when I put her to bed in pm as she does for her am nap. Maybe she just needs a much longer A time in pm after 1h 30mins nap? Should I maybe cap her am nap or is it enough with capping her pm nap? She needs about 2h 30mins A time before bedtime, which is still a bit too much to reach 12h day. Maybe I should cap a bit more?

Still having NW around 2 am and early morning wake around 5:10-6:20 when falling asleep 19:30-19:50.  >:( ???

Maybe she needs even less nap time during the day to SSTN and maybe a bit longer A time in morning??
« Last Edit: January 19, 2015, 19:46:04 pm by NinNic »

Offline katie80

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Re: LO 19 weeks early wake up/wake up at night
« Reply #65 on: January 20, 2015, 18:22:29 pm »
I wouldn't cap the morning nap, it's best to keep one full for as long as possible. If you want to cap the pm nap to have a 12hr day, that's totally up to you.

I'm wondering now if your issue in the afternoon isn't OS or a prop issue or both. She's had a huge jump in A time, still isn't always sleeping through the nap and still waking at night/EWing. That makes it seem not totally an A time problem to me, yk. :-\ I guess if I were you I'd do the routine that you think suits her best by observation and then work at stopping the patting to sleep in the afternoon. Something just seems a little off to me still, but honestly I'm not quite sure what I'd do about it. Sorry! :-[



Offline NinNic

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Re: LO 19 weeks early wake up/wake up at night
« Reply #66 on: January 20, 2015, 20:26:26 pm »
Today and yesterday she fell asleep pm nap after 4h 12/13mins and slept without waking up. Last night se fell asleep 19:35, however she woke at night twice; 1:45- she did fall asleep after 5 mins and 2:40- I had to pat her a bit and she fell asleep after 15 mins.She also woke at 21:30, but might have been something else not too sure. She did sleep through after that and I woke her 7:15. I will see how it goes tonight. I do think she needs around 4h 10-15mins A time in pm.

When you say she can be OS how do you mean exactly? Should I have more wind down time before nap?

Yes I don't want the patting to become a prop! What can I do instead, because she gets frustrated and angry with PU/PD, that has never really worked with her?! Do you have any other suggestions? Specially at night I don't know what else to do instead of patting to get her back to sleep.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2015, 20:36:50 pm by NinNic »

Offline katie80

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Re: LO 19 weeks early wake up/wake up at night
« Reply #67 on: January 21, 2015, 00:37:18 am »
That sounds pretty good! Hopefully that routine will stay consistent over the next several days and we'll see if anything happens to the NWs.

As for OS, I was thinking that because of the long A time (and subsequent 35min resettle). Basically, you just want to try to keep the last 30min or so of A time a bit calmer (if at all possible). Some people put their LO in a sling or carrier, some just bring them to another room more free of distraction (like a bedroom), some use a longer wind down. It may not be the case, but just a thought I had and something to try.

WRT patting, you don't need to use something else, necessarily, esp not in the MOTN, but I think it's worth a try lessening it in the afternoon, so she doesn't end up counting on that to get to sleep. It's not uncommon to have a small prop issue come up after developmental milestones, etc, you just want to make sure it doesn't stay. So, give her all the chance she needs to settle herself (i.e. don't intervene if she's just mantra crying/fussing) and if you do need to intervene, try to do it to a minimum (only to calm, not to sleep) and hopefully you'll have to do it less and less. Does that help?



Offline NinNic

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Re: LO 19 weeks early wake up/wake up at night
« Reply #68 on: January 23, 2015, 16:33:55 pm »
I have tried to keep 30 mins before pm nap calm but that doesn't seem to work. She is still finding it hard to settle and today we were up to 4h 36mins A time before she fell asleep. When I put her down for nap she seems tired and calm, but then she starts moving around (usually she does this for other nap and also evening bedtime and falls asleep) after a while gets annoyed and starts crying, so I have to go in to calm her by patting her a bit. I try not to pat a lot so might be why it takes her long to settle. I think you are right, the patting has become prop. Yes that all does make sense. I'm really trying to do what you said about the patting but it is hard! I guess it takes some time to get that prop out of the way?

I've had to cap her pm nap to about 40-45 mins to get 12h days as she falls asleep late for her pm nap. She then has about 2h A time before bedtime.

She woke 21:30 yesterday, can this have to do with OT?

Woke 4:30 for BF on Wed night and 5:40 for BF on Thu night, difficult for her to fall asleep after BF both nights, can this be OT as she is not chatting away like she was before with NW? She is moving around trying to fall asleep after BF and doesn't manage to.

I have increased her A time in morning to 3h 25/30min as she has been waking up earlier from her nap for a while now and seems to be working.



« Last Edit: January 23, 2015, 16:35:36 pm by NinNic »

Offline Ima shel Alon

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Re: LO 19 weeks early wake up/wake up at night
« Reply #69 on: January 23, 2015, 20:20:16 pm »
The 4.5h A time sounds a little bit too much for her and if she is taking a while to settle and it trying to fall asleep but doesn't manage it can indicate OT. IIWY I would try and shorten it a bit even in the price of having a shorter nap (which you anyway have).

If the patting has become a prop then why not try PU/PD? I think that even if it's not a prop then at some age they just find it disturbing...
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Offline NinNic

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Re: LO 19 weeks early wake up/wake up at night
« Reply #70 on: January 23, 2015, 21:00:38 pm »
I will try shorter A time it's just she seems to be calm and tired when I put her to bed, but then she finds it hard to fall asleep.

She does not like PU/PD at all gets more annoyed! She does seem to like the patting.

What do you think about the below?:

Woke 4:30 for BF on Wed night and 5:40 for BF on Thu night, difficult for her to fall asleep after BF both nights, can this be OT as she is not chatting away like she was before with NW? She is moving around trying to fall asleep after BF and doesn't manage to.

Offline katie80

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Re: LO 19 weeks early wake up/wake up at night
« Reply #71 on: January 24, 2015, 05:52:45 am »
I think it can be OT, yes. Or discomfort, or UT.  :-\ With NWs like that I think it takes the whole picture to figure out what it is and since it's different from before, I would guess OT or discomfort.

When you have to go in and pat at the nap, is she just fussy crying, like she's frustrated and trying to get herself to sleep or is she downright upset? Do you think it's possible you're going in when she doesn't really 'need' you and that's how it's become a bit of a prop?



Offline NinNic

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Re: LO 19 weeks early wake up/wake up at night
« Reply #72 on: January 28, 2015, 20:42:36 pm »
I would say she is fussy crying and not downright upset at beginning but then gets worse. I have tried to go in later when her crying escalates, she still needs some patting though I do it less and try to let her fall asleep on her own. For past 2 days she has fallen asleep on her own for pm nap after 4h 20mins. So let's see how it goes.

For past 2 nights she has slept through the night woken around 6:40 I think and fallen asleep around 19:30 in evenings. I hope it will stay this way.  :) Fingers crossed.

I have a few questions:

1. For her am nap A time is 3h 30mins, when I go in to wake her after 1h 30mins she is already awake. I tried today to increase A time with 5 more mins, she woke up after 43mins, probably OT, she didn't fall asleep on her own so patted her a bit and she fell asleep. Is it ok to increase A time with 5mins to see if she will sleep full nap? I think she is waking few mins earlier so maybe sign to extend A time a little bit?

2. As we are now up to 4h 20mins A time in pm it leaves pm nap very short. Today only 25mins and still needed 2h 10mins to bedtime. Can we have shorter nap than 25mins to get her to bed a bit earlier for 12h days or better to leave at 25mins and have 11h day? We would prefer 12h day but not too sure how to do it? Also what do we do once A times need to be increased even more let's say 30mins in total, what happens to pm nap then?

3. I'm wondering about PU/PD, Tracy states in her book that you should put LO down instantly once stop crying. This does not really work with LO she just cries even more when put her down. My husband holds her a bit longer until she is calm and then put her down and it seems to work doing this once. I keep on saying to him he should put her down straight away when she stops crying as I don't want it to become prop, but maybe I'm wrong as it seems to work the way he does it. What is your advice on this??

Offline Ima shel Alon

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Re: LO 19 weeks early wake up/wake up at night
« Reply #73 on: January 29, 2015, 19:43:43 pm »
I wouldn't mess with the first A time just yet. If she wakes 5min earlier than 1.5h then I would still consider it a full nap.
WRT the second nap what I did (because we had the same problem) is I just set it. For us it was at 16 till 16:45 which gave us enough A time before BT at 19.
WRT PU/PD it's really hard to say as it might become a prop, but IIWY I would continue the way that is working for you now. There is nothing wrong with consoling your baby, yk?
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Offline NinNic

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Re: LO 19 weeks early wake up/wake up at night
« Reply #74 on: January 29, 2015, 20:25:27 pm »
When is it ok to extend first A time, when she starts waking much earlier from her nap and/or have night wakings?

What if she doesn't fall asleep until around 4h 20mins what is the best solution then as she still needs over 2h A time after 25mins nap? Will shorter A time in pm maybe result in NW as thats what caused NW?
« Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 21:11:33 pm by NinNic »