New behaviour after illness

[newkidontheblock]

Okay, please HELP! DD is changing the game yet again! She has been sleeping through the night from 5 weeks 7 to 7 with a DF between 10 & 11. We just went on holiday and routine stayed consistent. She came back with the flu though and still sleep remained unchanged. The flu led to congestion, which made sleeping tough for her and led to multiple wake ups after bedtime but that was mainly discomfort. Since then ( 1st Nov) she has picked up a habit of waking at 8.30/40 crying along with multiple night wakings. Could you please take a look & tell me what you see

1/11 - 8.30 WU crying - PU/PD to resettle
2/11 - slept through
3/11 - 8.30 WU screaming & crying - all attempts at resettle failed -- nursed down
          WU screaming & crying again at 1 & 4 -- all attempts failed -- had to nurse down
           WU crying 5.30 - resettled herself.   WU 6.45 crying - nursed
4/11 - WU crying 3 am - could not resettle -- bottle 3oz
           WU 5 am but resettled herself
           WU again 6.30 and got her up for the day
5/11 -  WU crying at 8.40 / 1.45/ 3.30/ 5 & 6 but resettled herself
6/11 - slept through
7/11 - 8.20 WU crying - could not resettle -- bottle 2oz
          WU crying at 5.30 -- resettled herself
8/11 - WU 7.20 - PU/PD to resettle -- AWAKE when DH went in for DF & rejected it
          WU crying at 3.30 -- bottle 3 oz
          WU crying at 5.30 but resettled herself
9/11   WU crying at 7.30 -- PU/PD to resettle

I can't seem to find a pattern in this. Previously she would let out a few sleep cries at 6 am but easily resettle herself. What gives now? Is this just how things go after an illness? We are VERY consistent with bedtime & bedtime routines. I was thinking maybe this is just due to OT? WDYT? Today we put her to bed at 6. Naps are bad through the day so can't catch up on OT that way. 

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

What does her daily routine look like? Is she well now? Just wondering if her day needs a tweak other than just the recovery from illness. Around  6 months is generally when lo's go to two naps a day, miht she be ready to start that transition?

[newkidontheblock]

Hi. Yes, she is well now but we are still continuing with the steam inhalation. Her daily routine has also taken a hit. It wasn't great to begin with due to terribly short naps but we were getting the am nap at least for 1 1/2 hours. 2 weeks ago we were getting 3 naps of 1.5 - 40 mins - 30/45 mins.
Here is yesterday and today's routine (yikes)
8/11
7 - WU + feed (not hungry)
9.45 - 11.45 -- nap 1 ( 25 minutes in crib -- rest in arms -- could not settle even with PU/PD)
WU + feed (hungry)
2.35 - 3.05 -- nap 2 (resettled but WU crying as soon as hand was removed. Would not sleep even when nursed or held)
feed (HUNGRY)
4.50 - tried to PD for catnap. Lots of crying
5.20 - 6 -- nap 3 (in sling)
feed - bath- feed
7 - sleep
7.20 - WU crying -- PUPD once to resettle
DF 10.30 -- AWAKE - gave DH a huge grin and refused to eat at all. He put her back in her crib and she went back to sleep on her own
3.30 am - WU crying Bottle 3 oz
5.30 - WU crying but resettled

So far today
7.30 - WU + feed
9. 45 - PD    10 - 10.34 -- nap 1 -- could not resettle
11.15 - feed (hungry)
PD for  nap 2 at 12.25 -- needed help going to sleep-- nap 2 -- 1 - 3  -- slept on her own for 30 mins after that I had to resettle thrice every few minutes and keep my hand covering her eyes & holding her body for the rest of the nap.
3 - feed (good)
4.30 - feed (good) bath  - feed (okay)
5.40 -PD - started crying -- 6 - sleep
7.30 - WU crying -- resettled PU/PD
9 - WU crying - could not resettle-- DH is in there feeding her now

I was advised to drop the catnap, hence the super early bedtime to try and add to night sleep. But she has already been up twice since then, so I don't think that's working

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

The average A time for her age is 2.5  to 3 hours, so I would suggest to try extending the first morning A in hopes of getting a better and more settled nap there by allowing a longer A to the next nap and then have them better spaced so there is no need for a cat nap. I would for sure give it some time on two naps before deciding whether it is working or not. Would you say she is high, average or lower sleep needs? A times can vary depending on that as well.

[newkidontheblock]

Not high but definitely above average. She resists way too much. NWs, EWs - are these all characteristics of OT or 3-2 or just baby crazies?

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Unfortunately it could be any of the above! Sorry that is not helpful I know!

[newkidontheblock]

No it is fine. I really am all over the place. Thanks though

[newkidontheblock]

 This is our EASY of the last 2 days
10/11
7.30 - WU + E
10.20 - 12 -- nap 1 (held through jolts at 40 - 40 & 30 mins)
12- E
3- 4.30 -- nap 2 (slept in crib for 30 mins -- couldn't resettle. Held in arms for rest of nap)
4.30 - E
5.30 - E (did not want) bath - feed( very distracted & disinterested - had to bounce/ dance)
6.15 - PD (mistake as she was so UT)
Nursed to sleep
7 - sleep (we do not nurse to sleep usually. She has been so OT lately that I was trying for an early BT and I just upset her so much that nothing else would calm her down)
9.30 - WU -- tried to resettle with pat/shush/ PU/PD -- not happening -- offered 1 oz - slept off
10.30 - DF (4&1/2 oz)
no night wakings

11/7
7 - WU + E
9.45 - 11.20 - nap 1 (held through jolts)
11.30 - E x2
2.20 - 2.50 - nap 2 (would not go back to sleep even when held)
3.30 - E (HUNGRY)
5.10 - 5.40 - CN
6 - feed, bath, feed
7 - sleep
10.30 - DF (3& 1/2 oz)
All of this is normal till...
1am - WU crying -- not hungry -- took half an hour to get her back down
1.30 am - sleep
1.45 - WU crying but resettled herself after a LONG time
3 am - WU crying- could not resettle -- ate 3 1/2 oz
6.30 - WU for the day crying

WDYT?

[Martini~]

Hey Hon, my quick thoughts here:
- is there any chance she is hungry? is she a big baby? how much of milk does she take? around six months there is a growth spurt and it usually coincides with solids introduction; i remember Frank drinking a LOT of milk around 6mo (more than usual) and still eating solids; I also know that you are a bit stressed so maybe your supply is going down - WDYT?
- if you think that pushing to two naps with 3h of A makes her very OT, sometimes and for some babies (usually LSN but tiring quickly but then also sleeping shortly) 3 naps in configuration short-long-short is better for the transition period -> they can sleep less during the day, but having 3 naps prevent from OT
- are you sure that you do not have a prop here and there? around 5-6mo they are usually so aware that something which wasn't a problem before, may become their natural sleep association
- I remember with DS that teething looked like that for us; generally some discomfort or WW usually last for around 10-12 days and then usually solved by itself... so maybe it will happen soon for you...?

[newkidontheblock]

She was 6kgs at 4 mos, so not a big baby. At the waking around 3/4 am, she is definitely hungry. I was thinking that maybe she needed a NF for a while since she didn't eat much through the illness days. But waking an hour & half after bed or after DF is not hunger. Probably OT but I don't know how she is getting that way! Can't seem to break this cycle. Feeds have gotten quicker and she is quite distracted & turns her head away a lot. I pump after the morning feed and in the night before bed and I have been getting more than usual, meaning she is eating less. Katherine has been advising me also and I am following her advice of sticking to one feed per A time. I have been doing one at wake up and another half hour before nap. I might have inadvertently been encouraging snacking.

I don't think we have a prop. We have never rocked, no paci or swing or anything. If anything, my fall back was always nursing but she has been going down independently for so long now (for night sleep only). I have had to twice this month already though. After everything else was not working.

I really thought this was just because she was ill recently. I know regressions can happen as a result. But we did not break the routine even then and she slept better than she is now. I really hope this is developmental.

So basically we should just stick to the routine & hope this will blow over? I think your nap suggestion is spot on. DH and I were just discussing that. 2 x 1.5 hr naps + 30/45 min catnap seems to be more sleep than she needs. She was previously doing 1x 1.5 + 2x 45 and slept great. So shortening a nap may do the trick. Let me try these things tomorrow

Thanks for taking the time to help!

[jessmum46]

We are doing a short-long-short routine here so ask if any questions....though we do have two NFs so not perfect!!

[newkidontheblock]

Thanks Katherine but that wouldn't work for us. The first nap is the only one with which we have any success. Right now I am powering on with 2 naps of 1.5 hours each. The timings have matched up the past few days as she has been waking late -- 7.20 & twice at 8 because of silly early morning feeds. She can do 2.5 to 3 hours to BT but not much more.

[newkidontheblock]

Things are just not getting better with these night wakings. They are so random. She will go to sleep just fine and independently but we just cannot relax as every day she wakes up crying between that time & dream feed. The timings vary so much. It used to be that we could put her to bed and she would sleep till morning (with DF). No matter how bad the days were, the nights were fine. Then came that horrible flu and now things just aren't normalizing. 

Katherine, I know you said OT but I am staying in her room with her during naps and she is getting 2 naps of 1.5 hours every day with bedtime 2.30 - 2.45 hours later. A times are now 2.50 to 3 hours and since she is going down for naps without a fuss, I think that is fine. The only thing is, she is not transitioning on her own. Some days she will for the morning nap but never for the afternoon.For 10 days now, she is consistently getting proper naps (except for yesterday when she did a 10 minute pm nap).

She is in leap 5 of the wonder weeks right now, so could that be it?

Here is how it is nowadays
19/11 - 2 naps - 1.10 & 1.50 -- BT 7 -- WU 9 would not resettle without a feed -  WU 1 am but resettled herself
20/11 - 2 naps x 1.30 -- BT 6.40 -- WU 9.45 but resettled herself
21/11 - 2 naps x 1.30 -- BT 6.50 -- WU crying 8.45 SS -- WU crying 10 SS
22/11 - 3 naps - 1.45 + 45 + CN -- BT 7 -- WU crying 7.25 needed a resettle
23/11 - 2 naps - 1.30 + 2.20 -- BT 6.50 -- made it through the night. YAY!
24/11 - 2 x 1.30 -- BT 6.50 -- WU 8  needed resettle
25/11 - 3 naps - 1.30 + 10 mins + CN - -BT 6.40 - WU 7.05 needed a resettle (clearly OT) WU at 2am & 6am but resettled herself
Today - 2 x 1.5 naps -- BT 6.45 -- WU 9 needed a resettle

I am quite sure something is going on with her teeth but nothing is cutting through yet and she doesn't show discomfort during the day or during naps.

[jessmum46]

What time is WU for all those days hun? I agree she is having good naps but maybe something to learn from the fact the day she had longer naps (23/11) she STTN?  Has she always needed help to resettle for longer naps or is that fairly new?

[newkidontheblock]

DH and I just thought this through. Tell me what you think --

Although she is *able* to do 3 hours A time, 2 naps of 1.5 hours are not restorative enough and so she is still tired even after a nap? We have noticed that she gets quite fussy half way through the A time, at around the 2 hour mark. Marti's suggestion of short -long-short would be tough for us as the first nap is the easiest to get right. So you think it is just that? and that it will continue until she is able to handle 9 hours day A time with 3 hours of naps at which point things should normalise?

The first nap is the only one that she can do without a resettle and that is also not falling into place yet. Sometimes she makes it through without needing help, sometimes not. For all others, she has always needed a resettle.

19/11 - WU 7-  2 naps - 1.10 & 1.50 -- BT 7 -- WU 9 would not resettle without a feed -  WU 1 am but resettled herself
20/11 - WU 7- 2 naps x 1.30 -- BT 6.40 -- WU 9.45 but resettled herself
21/11 - WU 7.152 naps x 1.30 -- BT 6.50 -- WU crying 8.45 SS -- WU crying 10 SS
22/11 - WU 6.45 3 naps - 1.45 + 45 + CN -- BT 7 -- WU crying 7.25 needed a resettle
23/11 - WU 72 naps - 1.30 + 2.20 -- BT 6.50 -- made it through the night. YAY!
24/11 - WU 6.30 gave bottle & she went back to sleep till 8 -- 2 x 1.30 -- BT 6.50 -- WU 8  needed resettle
25/11 - WU 7.15 3 naps - 1.30 + 10 mins + CN - -BT 6.40 - WU 7.05 needed a resettle (clearly OT) WU at 2am & 6am but resettled herself
Today - WU 6.50 2 x 1.5 naps -- BT 6.45 -- WU 9 needed a resettle