NW escalating to screaming

[dumbmum101]

Hi there

For the last couple of weeks my 22 week old has been waking anywhere between 9pm - 2am (although usually between 10-10:30pm), standard crying at first, but when we go to settle him it quickly escalates to screaming. Big red face. Real tears. Inconsolable. Nothing works to soothe him. Cuddles/soothing voice/dummy etc... When I've tried to feed him he has also gone ballistic. However, it has worked to soothe him the last 2 nights (so bit concerned I could be getting into AP/BF'ing as a prop). Last night and tonight he has fallen asleep on the breast.

As he looks like he is in pain and his reaction is so violent I have tried meds. Last night I gave him Calpol at 7pm after bath and feed. No calpol tonight. Same screaming episode regardless on both occasions. Tonight he woke at at 8:50pm (his earliest yet). Last night he woke around 9:20pm. He is teething (very dribbly during the day but quite a happy smiley boy otherwise). So don't think its pain. Also, would he want to feed if he's in that much pain?

Don't think its hunger either, although the wakings are erratic, as he doesn't take much when he does feed.

My feeling is, if it isn't a sudden violent pain like sudden wind, it must be that he's having trouble transitioning through sleep cycles and our attempts to settle him just over-stimulate him/wind him up. Does this sound likely?

Unfortunately, we do tend to 'Rush in' to try and prevent him from waking his big sister in the next room.

Couple of background facts.

He's EBF
On a standard 4hr schedule.
Naps are typically very short 30-45 mins unless I intervene but always seems quite happy when he wakes. But I am worried he's not getting enough daytime sleep. If I can I try to lengthen his naps. On other days I just go with the flow and he might do x4 catnaps as opposed to x2 long naps and 1x catnap.
Up until 6 weeks he was waking at 2am and 5am for night feeds. But since 6 weeks he has been waking multiple times in the night. Try to only feed him if can't resettle with dummy. But basically on x2 night feeds still. However he has been stretching longer at night for the last week or so. Hoping weaning will move us on to at least X1 night feed.

The x2 night feeds are obviously far from ideal. Neither are the short daytime naps. But my real focus at the moment is this screaming early in the evening (perfectly calm at other NW's past midnight). Any thoughts/ideas?

TIA

[Ima shel Alon]

Could you post your day in an EASY format, I would like to have a look at his A times and which nap do you get after which A time.

My bet right now would be on the teething, because from what you are saying it's hard to console him and settle him, that sounds like pain to me.
But I can still look at the EASY and see if it's maybe his A times or naps that are causing it.

[dumbmum101]

Hi

At the moment it goes something like this:

E:07:30
A:07:45 - 09:30
S:09:30 - 10:10 (problematic short nap, although on ocassion has slept until 10:45)

E:11:00
A:11:20
S:12:30 if he looks tired (or 12:50 if he's looking quite chirpy still) - 13:10 wakes although usually manage to get him to take another mini nap between 14:30-15:00


E:15:00
A:15:20 - 17:00
S:17:00-17:30

Bath: 18:30
E: 19:00
Bed: 19:15 ish depending on when he woke from his late evening catnap.  If chirpy he stays up for a story with his big sis until 19:30

I'm aware the naps are a problem but he doesn't seem OT most of the time.  On the x3 days his sister is at nursery until 13:00 I try to extend his first nap of the day. On a 'bad' day - he'll usually get x4 catnaps of about 30 mins each. So he's still only totalling 2hrs day time sleep 😔

Given him calpol at 18:45 again tonight but hasn't seemed to work in the past. But fingers crossed.

E:

[dumbmum101]

No joy with the meds last night. He woke at 21:50 and I fed him at 22:00 (after applying teething gel - just in case).

Problem when I have to feed him this early. No point doing a DF at 23:00 but he woke for x3 night feeds.

00:30
02:15
04:15

😞

Short of trying Ibufrofen at 19:00 instead. Not sure why to do.

Beginning to think he might be hungry after all. Certainly last 2 nights he hasn't seemed that satisfied at the 19:00 feed but keeps pulling off the breast once the milk flow slows down. I have real trouble keeping him to one boob after the first 10 minutes of a feed. The best night time sleep I've ever had from him was after a week of double-sided feeding. But not immediately. Only at the end of the week and then he seemed content to go back to single-sides feeding again.

But still can't understand the screaming if it is hunger. He never makes that much fuss for food in the day or at any other of the night feeds.

And if it is teething surely feeding would hurt his gums? But maybe he can only feed for short amounts of time which is why he's doing x3 night feeds? Snacking?

Sorry - going round and round in circles here.

About 3 nights ago he woke somewhere between 9pm - 10pm - can't remember now - then went through to 03:30 then until 07:30. So confused!

Little wotsit is still asleep now at 08:30 😊

[weaver]

Just to say on the meds, that ibuprofen is the way to go for teeth as it eases swelling, and it's probably the swelling the gums that is sore (just thinking about it makes me feel sore!).  It's likely paracetamol would do little or nothing for him, that's certainly been my experience.  I've gone from being pretty tentative about meds and always trying paracetamol, to going straight for the ibuprofen if I know it's teething.  And teething gels have done zero for mine either.  They did like Teetha during the day, if they were just feeling a bit off.

Feeding also worked very nicely for them so soothing.

HTH.

[Ima shel Alon]

^^^I couldn't agree more. We managed during the day with homeopathic powder but during the night it was a whole different story. I think this is also why you see such a difference with the crying during the day and the night.

I can't see anything wrong with his EASY. Right, his naps are short and it's not ideal, but as he is approaching the 3-2 transition and he is about to have a big jump of A times in a week or so I wouldn't do anything just yet. I would wait a bit and try to tackle teething and if that doesn't work then I would work on increasing his A times but just a bit, perhaps by 10min.

If he took a full feed at midnight and then again at 2AM then I am not sure it's hunger. Why would he be hungry after only 2h?
I haven't BF at this age but I am wondering why are you doing just one side feeds? I remember I was told to feed both sides on each feed... I guess there are different theories. 

[dumbmum101]

Thanks all.

No screaming last night!!! Didn't use meds - so can only put this down to the fact he had his first go at solids yesterday. Have been putting it off as long as possible but over the last couple of days just getting the sense he's not getting enough from me.

See how we go tonight....

[Ima shel Alon]

That's great, I hope you got better sleep yourself.
Maybe it wasn't the solids but the tooth stopped moving? Just a thought.

[dumbmum101]

Hi - back to screaming episodes again for the last 2 nights.

Solids given again today. And ibuprofen at 19:15 after 19:00 feed - BT at 19:30 ish.

He's just woken screaming at 21:30ish. Did everything possible including just leaving him be for a little bit.  But eventually after 15 minutes of trying to calm him I ended up feeding him again.  He takes a few big glugs for a few minutes and falls asleep on the breast - but it's definitely not a full feed. And these feeds between 21:30 a 22:00 mess up a potential DF

It looks like pain, but he doesn't seem in the least bothered by his teeth during the day.  Don't have to give him anything - teething powders, gels, meds.

So - to recap it's unlikely it's hunger - he doesn't feed enough.

It could be teeth but he's been on meds some nights and not others and the results are the same.

If it was pain would a very short feed really be all he needs to send him back off to sleep so quickly?

Why does he always wake with these episodes between 21:30-22:30 and yet is much calmer at other NW's?

I'm still toying with the idea that this is an OT hangover from earlier in the day?

I'm supposed to be going out for dinner with friends in a weeks time and I would dearly love to go as I haven't had a night out/social life in months. But with this issue its looking massively unlikely. Feeling like a prisoner in my own home 

[Ima shel Alon]

(((Hugs))), hun.

If you know that he is going to be awake at 21:30-22:30 anyway for a short feed, would you consider doing a "DF" before he wakes? Maybe he is just stuck in this loop and this NW became habitual, the earlier feed might break this cycle.

If you like you can also try and stretch his A times a bit in case this has to do with him not getting enough A time before a nap, resulting in a short nap. I wouldn't jump a lot, just like 10min.

[dumbmum101]

Hi.

Thanks again.

I might try an earlier feed as you suggest. Or maybe wake to sleep might help?

From tomorrow I'm going to also try a bottle of formula at the 19:00 feed. No joy in the past but willing to persevere as keen to move on from BF'ing soon. 

Thanks for the support, again.

X