1-0 no idea need help

[jessmum46]

Hi hun, just jumping on first of all with some hugs for you, we've been through a lot of Benji's sleep together!

I know how hard you both find routine changes and OT to deal with, so I can't force you to relax about it but what I will say is that somehow even if you can't relax about it, you do need to accept that OT will happen with this transition.  It does with any big routine change but you will come out the other side.  If it is any reassurance at all we found this actually the easiest of the nap transitions with J so there is hope.

So back to the beginning.....what was happening that made you decide to cap the nap to an hour rather than the 1h15?  What was his routine at that point?  Does he have all his teeth now?  Not unwell in any way with a cold etc?

I agree with Creations that the 10.5-11h day rule is not for everyone.  Days that short did not work for us in the 1-0 and J got through it with some 'rules' that we stuck to regardless of EW, NW, OT.  I wonder if something similar may help you?  It certainly gave us a sense of being at least a little in control and I think us being consistent really helped J.  She was a nap refuser rather than resisting BT or EW but you could do something similar regardless.

Our rules were:
Not to wake in the morning
Not out of bed before 6.30am even if woke early - tried to resettle or at least stay in dark
Offer nap - into bed by 1.30pm
If nap refused after 45 mins or so, get up
If napped, wake by 3 (this would usually be max an hour)
Set BT 7pm if napped, 6.30pm if didn't
If she had one or two NNDs in a row and was clearly losing the plot we would take a quick drive around 3/3.30pm and let her have a 15-20 min catnap if she chose to fall asleep.  Any longer she was a bear to wake and would be grumpy until BT.

I think I recall Benji is not usually a car sleeper but has done very occasionally when seriously OT.  I would consider giving the car catnap as an option if he is really struggling (bearing in mind it will still be up to him if he sleeps or not) and if he chooses not to, push him to the set BT.  We had some 13h+ NNDs when J had an EW but refused to nap but sticking to our plan got us back on track quicker than trying to get her caught up.

I would also say (from our experience, others may disagree) to avoid giving longer naps in an attempt to help him catch up.  We found this actually led to further OT due to BT delaying or short nights so it was best to cap the nap short and use EBT if necessary, even if she was shattered.

Hope some of those thoughts are helpful, please keep posting so we can support you x

[Straffles]

Can't reply fully now as it's 2am jessmun

But if he hasn't woken now it basically means a 9hr night off back of that 1hr25 catch up nap.

I don't know how long his nap shd be tomorrow as he will wake 4.30ish now.

I need to talk to you about yr suggestions.

Benji doesn't show ot in the day, not til you put him to bed so the car option??

He was yawning in the car at 12noon yesterday tho!

I just need to know what nap length to go with as his sleep totals so low ATM and did you do 13hr days eg from 5 am - 6pm?!? I cdnt do that. I don't get him up til 6.30 even if he wakes at 4.30 though sonetines it's 6ish.

I'm lost guys hold my hand

[jessmum46]

Benji doesn't show ot in the day, not til you put him to bed so the car option?

This is actually great news hun, if he handles OT well in terms of his mood and behaviour in the daytime.  Don't lose sight of that, that means 11h or so of happy Benji in the day, don't let a difficult bedtime or a NW spoil that.  When J struggles to settle or is very OT I tell myself, 'she is tired, my job is to be there for her' and that helps me handle it better. But in terms of how/when to do a car nap then maybe just head out at that time every time he doesn't nap so give him the option to doze off if he needs to.  He's not refusing many naps though yet is he?

I just need to know what nap length to go with as his sleep totals so low ATM and did you do 13hr days eg from 5 am - 6pm?!? I cdnt do that.

What was the last routine that worked?  The 1h15 nap?  What time was WU and BT on that routine?  As you know hun none of us know Benji as well as you or can see how he's handling this.  I can't tell you how long he needs to nap, other than saying that I probably wouldn't give him a long nap if you've noticed that this seems to shorten his night.  I would stick with the shorter nap and pull BT early as the night sleep will be more restorative in terms of catching up.

The other thing I would say is try not to focus on the numbers again, I know I found that pretty stressful and I'm not sure it will help either of you.  For this transition I ignored sleep totals, day length and just went by the clock as I said above.  When you say you couldn't do a 13h day, why not?  Would you just be worrying?  I'm not suggesting you AIM for 13h days, just that by sticking to a set BT it sometimes happens. 

The way I see it, if you change nap time, nap length, bedtime etc every day based on WU time, you will constantly be chasing your tail.  Plus not giving B chance to self-regulate.  It will all be a bit out of your control.  If you set yourself some rules, even if they aren't the "right" ones to begin with, at least something will be constant and it will be much easier to see what needs tweaking. 

Will look forward to your reply when it's a more sociable hour (and hope Benji surprised you by sleeping in a bit x)

[creations]

I thought cutting the nap back wd help him sleep.

How do you make the leap if you're getting 9hr nights with a nap and 10.5 hr nights with an NND? I can't see how.

Answering kind of both these at once.  The point I was making was that mine was not ready to do NNDs, he couldn't handle it at all. Of course I was not happy with him messing around at BT and with BT getting later and nights getting shorter BUT for him (and maybe yours, or maybe not) he was happier and fully rested by keeping the nap and allowing nights to shorten (he was not happy or rested from a longer night and capped or no nap). This went on a few months and perhaps for your LO he needs to continue to be offered a nap every day but a later BT to reduce the messing at BT and 'give in' to the shorter night?
I actually did try capping the nap when he hit 9hr nights (nap here was 2hrs!) with grim results. I also tried one NND per week, with equally grim results.  In the end mine dropped his nap cold turkey at his say so when he was good and ready.

I just need to know what nap length to go with as his sleep totals so low ATM and did you do 13hr days eg from 5 am - 6pm?!? I cdnt do that. I don't get him up til 6.30 even if he wakes at 4.30 though sonetines it's 6ish.

I would push the whole day out so you get a later BT instead of earlier WU (ie later nap which he may be more inclined to agree to, which then brings BT later).

even if you can't relax about it, you do need to accept that OT will happen with this transition

I agree. Although we all mostly hate OT there's no need to fear it, UT is (IMO) more detrimental to getting a routine on track.

and hugs xx

[Aishi]

Hi straffles

long time no see! Idk if u remember but im seriously stressed by the ot monster too. My dd (almost 3) has always been sensitive to ot even by 5-10 mins! ! So (((hugs))) I totally get your fear and stress about it.

first off, I agree with Katherine- it has been the easiest of transitions for us too and having set rules really helped. Although it took me a while to listen to katherines advice and just stick to set bt :-)

Anyhoo, if i rem right dd started nap refusal at 2.5 yo (before this she was on a 2h nap and 11.5h night so it came out of nowhere!!). I tried nap capping at 1h, 45 min and 20 min keeping to a 12.5h day max for a few weeks but she was a beat at being woken from nap and nights were still short prob cos she was ot from capped nap. So I dropped nap ct and the first few weeks we did 10.5h day length gradually increased to 11.25 h which worked really well as she tacks onto night sleep and is hsn too so we were getting 13-14 h nights. But with a 7am wu that meant 6pm bt and often earlier if wu was early for some reason (ive done plenty of 4.45-5 pm bts resulting in 6-6.30 wus)

Then clocks went back and wu got stupid early and I got sick of 5pm bts so I decided to stick to advice from these lovely ladies and did 6.30 set bt about two weeks ago and its been fine!! My dd doesnt handle ot well during day so has had some epic meltdowns during the 1-0 but she just seems ready to cope with the set bt (dont think she would have at beginning of transition as set naps and bt had never worked before and this is where YOU knowing your lo best comes into play). I pd by 6.15/20 and shes asleep for 6.30. Wu today was 6.30 (so a short night for her) but has ranged from 6-8 over the last week. Katherine is right.  They do learn to self regulate and cope with the ot- sounds like benji is doing well with that already!

Try not to stress about it. Formulate a plan and stick to it for a few weeks he may surprise you! Hth a bit!

[Straffles]

I can't thank you enough for your helpful replies Aishi and Katherine. Thank you.

What you say makes sense.

The thing is that what you say does not seem to relate - in my mind anyway! - to what is going on with Benji ATM.

On Friday I did an NND - gave a 10.5hr night, not 13 as you say you got!

When I talk of ews, I'm talking 4.30/5am from a 7.30 bt. I cdnt do a NND off a night like that.

So...when or how - or why?! - wd I do a NND in these circumstances?

After the 10.5hr night on Friday, I gave Benji an uncapped nap (1hr25mns) and he slept 10hr50 ons.

Today I returned to a 1hr nap, he woke after 55mibs, upset, and bt wasn't til almost 8pm. I expect a short night.

So what now? Stick with 1hr nap another day then cut to 45mins?

Or dies he really need a longer nap and the capping at 1hr was too soon? How do I work it out?

Suzy x

[creations]

So back to the beginning.....what was happening that made you decide to cap the nap to an hour rather than the 1h15?  What was his routine at that point?  Does he have all his teeth now?  Not unwell in any way with a cold etc?

I think this information would be really helpful.

So...when or how - or why?! - wd I do a NND in these circumstances?

Looking at what you say here (and Katherine's questions), you are both asking "why" the nap would be cap or "why" you'd offer a NND and as Katherine said, let's go back to the beginning.

After the 10.5hr night on Friday, I gave Benji an uncapped nap (1hr25mns) and he slept 10hr50 ons.

Today I returned to a 1hr nap, he woke after 55mibs, upset,

I'd read into this that he is happier with a slightly longer nap.  And if he is waking at 55 mins unhappy it could be due to the nap being slightly too early.

[Aishi]

I agree with creations. If he still needs nap I would go with slightly later and longer nap and make my peace with shorter ons x

btw when I was nap capping what worked for a while was later nap but shorter a to bt so for eg

wu 6.30
Nap 3-3.20
Bt 6.30

Obviously with a longer nap day would be bit longer so maybe

wu 6
Nap 2.30-3.30
Bt 7

In the hope longer am a overrides shorter pm a time. Has that ever worked for benji?

wu

[jessmum46]

Also agree . Look forward to seeing your answers x

[Straffles]

Sorry guys I have so little time.

I don't know what to do. I have read your suggestions.

You say you think he wants longer nap. But he had 1hr20 uncapped last week and it led to a 9hr night.

I've just had 1hr nap and night was 7.50-4.35 incl 1nw. He was v distressed screaming oh it was awful.

So what do I do today? I don't see how I can change it up to the extent you're all suggesting to go from a nap at 1.45 to a nap at 3pm. 15 min changes usually reek him weeks to settle into. If be too scared, really it seems wrong??

Katherine: the reason I capped from 1hr15 to 1hr was three nights in a row like this : 7.40-4.50; 7.25-6.10 then 7.50-5.55.

I need to know what to do today.

Katherine you said don't do something different every day so I think stay with same nap length but it doesn't work.

He'll I don't know what to do. Same as yesterday? I can't do what you say and put nap at 3 it's too terrifying. I'm scared but I've got to get on with the day pkease help me

[Straffles]

Basically question is was that 1hr nap too long or short right? It gave a 8hr45 ons

[Straffles]

I just don't feel I have enough evidence to change anything.

Nnd gives 10.5hr night.

Nap if 1hr20/25 gives either 11hr or 9hr night.

Ew is 4.30 from 1hr nap.

I don't know what to do. His mood isn't great either

[Straffles]

Aishi you say make peace with shorter ons but 8hr45?!

Your model routine looks great but depends on a 6am wu but not 4.30.

So I can't see how I can do iy

[kaipooi]

I am in kinda the same with my DS but we kinda have it under some control he still needs his nap and I am still finding the right nap length. One thing I learnt is that you cannot conclude that a particular nap length is too long/short after only one day. As it depends on soooo many factors! Like, his activity level for that day, the night before, how tired is he that week, etc.

So yes, you really need to be consistent for a while if you want to find the good timings. My boy is spirited and very sensitive to change too. But he is 33 months old now and handles OT much better. So don't be afraid to push out that nap. Your LO will surprise you now that he is older!

[Straffles]

Going for nap at the normal time but shorter nap.

Confused because jessmun you say if he naps make bt later but in another post you say if he naps bring bt earlier.

Becj86 has told me to go with 30-45 min nap and 6pm bt so that echoes your saying to go earlier. But if he does less than 9 hrs on a 1hr nap I can't Expect him either to settle at 6 or sleep a 12hr+ night after a nap. I need to decide and I gave no answers.

Assuming I go with Bec, and wu is super early again tomorrow where do I go from there?