Think we need to reduce night feeds - help with a plan?

[jessmum46]

DS is nearly 24 weeks, EBF, just starting some tiny tastes of solids.  He's not a small boy, about 8.5kg.  Currently he has two night feeds at 12/1ish and 4/5ish.  I offer one side only and he feeds for maybe 5-6 mins.  However, he's not hungry when he gets up in the morning, so first feed is delayed, and he's not even that hungry even 3-3.5h after the second NF.  But then by about 3h later he is totally starving!

In the day at the moment he feeds 7.30ish (not really that hungry), 10.30/11ish (starving), 2/2.30ish, 5ish and 6ish.  I offer both sides each time except at 5pm as that's just to push him through to BT without a meltdown.  Occasionally he goes without that one.

I don't mind the night feeds but as his first milk feed is pushed later, it means there's not really time for a solid breakfast before nap time, so then solids would end up after nap before milk etc etc and the day becomes a bit messy.  What I'd really like is for him to be happy to take a decent feed first thing, so think we need to cut back on overnight milk. 

How would you do it?  Which one would you try to reduce first?  I was thinking the 12/1am one both to get me more sleep  and have the option of a cheeky AP feed to combat EWs but wonder if cutting that one back would make him take more at 4/5am and make the issue worse?

[Martini~]

F was waking twice for feed at 3mo, but I pushed the first waking (around 1/2am) with a dummy and then he he was waking around 4/5am. And not hyngry at 7am... startving at 10:30/11 etc. Nevertheless when I started to DF he started to sleep thru. Have you considered DF? I know it's not working for everybody, but maybe you would like it?

Another idea, try to push his waking from 12/1am to 2/3 (maybe with a dummy for couple of nights) and than do not offer only one side, but both. Thanks to that he may be able to go on one feed till morning and be hungry at 7am?

WDYT?

[jessmum46]

I've never been that keen on the DF to be honest, seems a bit late to start it now?  I like the idea of trying to push the 1am feed to more like 2/3am but he doesn't have a dummy.  Do you think it might work to reduce the length of time at 1am gradually and then hope the second feed moves earlier?

[Martini~]

You may try but for example for F it wouldn't work. I mean... He needed certain amount of milk per 24h. When he took that from 7am till 11pm, in 5 feeds, the so called "surplus" was enough for him for around 8h. If he didn't less, the surplus was only enough for slightly less, like 6h so when he naturally woke around 1am he was hungry. Not very hungry so I usually resettled with dummy but generally I had this waking until the moment I introduced DF.

Btw I introduced DF at 3mo, not from birth.

[lily_layne]

I worked on reducing NFs with R at around that age and found that cold turkey worked for stopping the earlier feed. I just rocked/patted instead of feeding and she stopped waking for that feed after 4 or 5 nights. Do you think cold turkey might work?

[jessmum46]

I'm not convinced....when I've tried to settle him and he's hungry, he just wakes after 15 mins again.  I'm going to try reducing the time gradually for the first feed for a few nights and see where that gets us.

[michaeljacknnugg]

I think I'd try and drop that later night feed, just because it could lead to EWs in the future if you allow him to keep set on a wakeup around that time. Could you try and get more into him at the earlier night feed, so you are more confident he doesn't need the second one?

[emily3434]

I'd agree-have you tried offering both sides at the first wake up?  Maybe both aides would hold him over to the morning, or make for a quick resettle at 4/5.  Or just one side at 4/5.  I find it much more difficult to resettle the 4/5.  And as you know, do tend to offer sleepy milk!  But just the one side at that time.  We do dream feed.  He never wakes up when I do it, just scoop him out of bed and pop him on. I don't change his diaper either at this time.  Never is necessary.  Good luck with whatever you decide!!  Sometimes I wish there was one solution to each problem!!

[jessmum46]

Emily that's my fear with trying to cut the 4/5am feed, he's had most of his night's sleep by then so I can imagine it being quite a bit harder to get him to go back off.  I could try the two sides for the first feed thing and see if it makes a difference. 

[Martini~]

Or try to do a combination of both. Slightly delay first feed and than at 2am offer both sides.

[KookyK]

I think at that age my DS still needed two NFs and even now barely touches breakfast (STTN and first feed on waking 6am then breakfast at 7). I just give another breakfast usually more successfully at about 9.30!

I think I could've cut back to 1 feed around 10 months and none around 12 months. Someone said from 8kg they shouldn't need a nf to me.

I carried on feeding 2-3 times per night then went cold turkey at 14 months to no feeds!! Prob not te way to do it but combined with WIWO he STTN after 3 nights. Guess he was ready!

[Martini~]

Kooky, sorry to hijack Katherine's thread, but so happy for you LO to STTN!!!

Katherine - you may try. Mine was ready for 1NF at 6wo, no feeds at 6mo. But I think it is a mix: your attempt to push him very very little and LO's needs. Some LOs when encouraged will STTN quickly, some need feeds and you may try but they will tell you they are not ready.

[emily3434]

Keep us posted!!  I have learned after 3 they are all SO different.  Looking back at baby books, my first dropped all night feedings including df at 20 weeks and never looked back.  My second went to df only around 12 weeks, and we kept the dream feed until 7 months and weaned easily.  Number 3 has not followed anyone's pattern!!!  Takes the df, then we just wait and see what the night brings!

[KookyK]

Thanks Martii - STTN was a long time coming!!

It's amazing how different they all are at being ready to drop some/all NFs I guess go with your gut is the message! It was put to me that it was more confusing to drop some feeds but still keep others (so baby knows sometimes they get a night feed) than just go cold turkey. This did apply to my 13-14 month old obv. I had been trying to ration him to 2 NFs and sing him back to sleep at other times

[jessmum46]

Ha, well, last night DS took two full feeds overnight and a full feed when he got up for the day . Best laid plans and all...may just have to put up with things being messy for a while longer until he's on a good amount of solids x

[michaeljacknnugg]

Huh, just when we think we've got a clue what they are up to, they surprise us!

[jessmum46]

Ladies, sorry to ramble on  but I'm just tired and sick of second-guessing myself about these feeds .

Last night DS took a great feed at 6pm (BT), then woke at 22.30.  DH resettled him but he woke again 15 mins later so I fed him.  He then woke again at 02.30 and fed, and took another feed just after 6am when he woke for the day.  Just feels like there's no long stretch anywhere, sigh.  Daytime is a struggle to make it past 3-3.5h between feeds so I guess he is doing that much at night, but just can't shake the feeling he *should* be able to go a bit longer.  6m growth spurt?  Is two night feeds reasonable at this age?  Is it reasonable to assume hunger if he can only be resettled for a few minutes without feeding?  (I don't think discomfort is an issue at the moment).  He is a totally independent sleeper for naps and BT but is usually fed at NWs as he doesn't often wake otherwise - times he has not been hungry e.g. 2h after a feed he has been reasonably easy to resettle without a feed and stays asleep. 

(His routine is also a bit of a 3-2 mess which I know can't be helping....)

[michaeljacknnugg]

I think he could either be on a growth spurt or just a big, hungry boy! DS was on 2 feeds at 6 mo, I can't remember when he went down to 1 but he didn't STTN until 11mo ish.

Can you maybe cluster feed in the afternoon? Our feeding schedule around that age included 2hrly (ish) feeds just to get him through.

[jessmum46]

That's a good thought, we can try it.  He's just so different to DD at this age that I can't help but compare but know I shouldnt!  Did you wean your NFs or did he drop them himself in the end?

[michaeljacknnugg]

We did a combination of not responding so quickly to him (DH to blame there, so I did it while he was away!) and him dropping them by himself. If it's any help, here is our rough feeding schedule from that time:

3hr EASY:
7,10,1,3,5,7
4hr EASY:
7,11,3,5,7

He started to not take too much at one of the day feeds (an afternoon one, I don't remember which) and at that point he also started to go longer overnight. It was as if he needed to get to the point where he could fill up to go long enough, iyswim.

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Spencer had a df and two nf's up until around the 6 month gs (and I did try to settle without - no go, she was hungry!) and Elliotte must have been about 7 months when she dropped to one nf and then 9 months or so when I dropped the other. Fwiw none of mine ever made it past 3.5 hourly feeds, even when mixed fed, until solids were well established.

[jessmum46]

Thanks ladies, that's reassuring.  As I said I don't mind the night feeds if he needs them, it's just hard when every baby round you seems to be sleeping through.  But I will stick with it for now and revisit in a few weeks if nothing has changed after we've got going with solids a bit more x

[KookyK]

6-7 months seemed to be a v dodgy time for sleep for us. It was when I weaned the dummy as NWs went insane. Even after that he woke for 1-2 NFs (usually 2). I moved hIm to his own room at 7 months - dont know if your LO is in own room - but that made a big difference. I've never tried to space out daytime feeds just fed on demand. Even now my 16 month old takes lots of milk feeds in the day but STTN (took a longtime to get there). I say tank them up jn the day.