Author Topic: Night wakings  (Read 3858 times)

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Offline HollyNF122

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Night wakings
« on: November 30, 2014, 21:16:46 pm »
Hello!

This is my first post so I apoligize for any errors!

My son started sleeping through the night at 7 weeks. He would go to sleep around 8:30 or 9pm and wake up at 6am. Sometimes I would even have to wake him up at 7am because he was still asleep. Around 11 weeks, he started waking up once or twice a night. We could usually give him a paci and he would fall back asleep. He is now 16 weeks and sleeping much worse. He wakes up at least 4-5 times a night. There have been a few nights when he wakes up every 30-45mins! Occasionally, I have tried feeding him during these times thinking that maybe it is a growth spurt and he will eat but still wakes up an hour or so later. Our schedule has not changed much. The only difference is that we stopped cluster feeding around 9 or 10 weeks, I think, because that is what the book said to do. We do a dream feed around 10:30 or 11pm. He sleeps the same amount during the day than he has been.

I think he is getting enough to eat. I went back to work when he was 11 weeks, he eats 30-35 oz. while with the nanny. I thought maybe he was waking up because he was hungry and maybe I'm not producing enough but he does not sleep any better after taking the 30-35oz. He did get an infected toe nail (I know!) when he was around 12 weeks and had to be on antibiotics for a week, but he started sleeping poorly 2 weeks prior. Also, the past 4-5 days he has had a cold but is on the mend. I read about when infants are around 12 weeks old they have a developmental growth spurt that can effect their sleep but this has been going on for 4 weeks!

I'm not sure what we are doing wrong! Please help!

Thank you!

Offline Buttonbobs

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Re: Night wakings
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2014, 21:57:21 pm »
Hi there, welcome to BW :)

Would you be able to post an example of your day in EAS format? There might be something in the daytime routine which gives us a clue as to what might help. there are so many developmental changes around this age, and sleep needs change quite rapidly, a tweak to the general pattern of daytime napping might help.

Poor thing having the toe infection and then the cold - these kind of things can really impact on LOs sleep (and the mums too). ((Hugs))

~ Naomi ~




Offline HollyNF122

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Re: Night wakings
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2014, 23:31:15 pm »
Hi Naomi!

This is roughly our daily schedule (give or take 30 mins).

6AM-Eat and up for the day when I work and he goes to the nanny. If I or Dad is home for the day we usually put him back to bed to get a couple more hours of sleep. Either way we get him up again at 9AM to eat again. We follow the every 3 hour schedule pretty strictly and only occasionally will go 3.5 hours between a feed. I breast feed when I am home and he bottle feeds when I work (3 days a week). I am a nurse so the days I work he bottle feeds all day. When I breast feed he is still eating from one side, but seems satisfied with that.

Activity- After about 20-30 mins of eating we will change his diaper and play. Play consists of tummy time, playing on the activity mat, "talking", sitting in bumbo and watching people or the dog, or sitting in bouncy chair.

Sleep- Usually 1.5-2 hours after a feeding I will lay him down for a nap. He is usually tired and goes to sleep as soon as I swaddle him. I swaddle both arms and rock him for a few mins before laying him down. I try to put him down sleepy but not totally asleep, but he usually falls asleep right away when I start rocking him. He will usually sleep anywhere from 30 mins to and hour. Then we start all over again.

Recap: We feed at 6am, 9am, 12pm, 3pm, 6pm, 8:30pm (bedtime routine), & 10:30 or 11 dream feed.

Our bedtime routine consists of a bath everyother day, lotion/massage, lavender oil, feeding, then swaddle and rock for a few mins. He never has trouble going to sleep. If it is nap time or bedtime he is usually asleep within minutes, but he just does not stay asleep. When he wakes up at night he cries, not just fussy. We will give him his paci and that helps most of the time. If it doesn't help then we will rock him for a few minutes and he is back asleep. Lately, though we are lucky to get him to sleep an hour at a time. He has been sleeping in his crib usually, but during this cold we have been letting him sleep ina  swing to help with his congestion. He used to sleep through the night with no problem so I have no idea where we went wrong!

Offline HollyNF122

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Re: Night wakings
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2014, 14:48:57 pm »
Do you think his bedtime is too late?
Do you think he should still be swaddled?

Please advise!

Offline HollyNF122

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Re: Night wakings
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2014, 04:11:25 am »
My husband thinks that he wakes up at night when the paci falls out and he can't replace it. Thoughts?!

Is there anyone that can help!! We are going on very little sleep for weeks and it's draining us!!

Please help!!

Offline katie80

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Re: Night wakings
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2014, 02:51:00 am »
Hi Holly,

Unfortunately, 4mo old is a notorious time of sleep issues.  There is often a growth spurt, LOs go through a wonder week (like a developmental growth spurt), and often a sleep regression.  This is also the time when props, like a paci and rocking to sleep, can start to become issues. 

First off, typically around 4mo is when you want to start moving him to a 4hr EASY routine.  He may not be able to make it a full 4hr between feeds just yet, esp as he's BF, but you can work toward doing a 3.5hr EASY and/or start doing some top up feeds if needed.  It does sound like he's probably getting enough oz in, but he might take better feeds and a bit more if you spread them out a little.  The average A time for a 4mo old is somewhere around 1h45m-2h. It sounds like you're sort of there already, but he's not taking full naps.  Do you think you're ready to start working on getting him to fall asleep more independently or to resettle and continue sleeping after he wakes from a short nap?

I do think his BT is too late, and because of the late BT, the DF is quite close to the BT feed (Tracy suggested it be 3-4hr after BT feed to be a full one) and may not be enough to last him til morning anymore.  I'd shoot for closer to a 12-13hr day max, so that he's doing a good 11-12hr overnight (with a DF).

He can definitely still be swaddled, many babies are swaddled until 6/7/8mo or until they start rolling over.  I do wonder if the paci has become a prop at this point though and your husband is right about him waking for it.  Again, this would go back to the question of if you're wanting to work on getting him to sleep more independently.  The paci may need to go in that instance.

Hope that helps a bit.  Let us know what you think.



Offline Buttonbobs

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Re: Night wakings
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2014, 06:50:55 am »
I agree absolutely with Katie, this is a tricky age for sleep and lots of change can occur in a short space of time.

Something that jumped out at me - am I correct in reading that his BT is around 8:30/9pm and if you are at home he goes back to sleep straight after the 6am feed, so it's treated like a night feed, but if you have to get up and work, then he is waking and starting his day routine at 6? If I have read it right, this is quite a large difference in daytime starting between working days and days you are both at home.

I understand the desire to have more sleep if you are able, but it might suit him better if you vary that starting time by only half an hour to an hour, so on a non working day he still gets up and starts the day after that first feed. Then you would aim for BT approximately 12 hours later. This may not help settle things straight away as you do still have the changes to the EASY at this age to work with, but the consistency should help him settle better.
~ Naomi ~




Offline HollyNF122

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Re: Night wakings
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2014, 12:53:34 pm »
Thank you both for your help! I feel we have gotten so far off track and don't know how to get back. Our LO was such a textbook baby. Our nanny joked that she could set her watch by his routine! I agree with all of your ideas.  Last night after we put our LO to sleep he woke up a half hour later, then again. Finally, 2 hours after his last feed we thought we would try giving him a bottle. He took 7.5 oz in 5 mins! I know when I nurse him he falls asleep sometimes but I try to wake him. Then after 20 mins or so he acts like he doesn't want anymore. I will burp him and try again but he doesn't act interested.


Her is our game plan. Let me know what you think!
1. spread his routine to 3.5 hrs and eventually 4 hrs over the next week or so
2. Push his bedtime back. I thought too that maybe his bedtime was too late but I worried about him getting enough to eat.
3. Get up after his first feed. I definitely think that it confuses him when we stay awake after some of his first feeds and go back to sleep after some. That was for my own selfish reasons (more sleep), but I can see in the long run how that can cause a problem.
4. Get rid of paci and other props! Not sure how to go about this one! Believe it or not he used to go to sleep on his own before we introduced the paci. We would really like to get back to there.

Thank you so much for your suggestions!

Offline HollyNF122

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Re: Night wakings
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2014, 12:55:40 pm »
Also, what are top up feeds?

Offline Buttonbobs

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Re: Night wakings
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2014, 13:44:30 pm »
Hiya, a top-up feed is used most often by BFing mums to give a little extra milk before nap time to help an LO get through a longer A time that they may need to get longer naps, but not yet be ready to stretch to four-hourly feeds. I didn't use them myself as by this age DD was bottle fed and could easily manage four hours. If you want to know more about how to do it it might be best to post the question on the Bf forum as lots of mums there will have used it - while taking care not to develop a snacking habit for their LO, which is counterproductive in the long term.

Your plan looks good - when stretching A times I would suggest adding 10/15 mins at a time and holding for a few days (3-5) before increasing again, you can do this one nap at a time or across the whole day. This gives your LO one to adjust to the change and hopefully means you'll find the sweet-A time that works for him.

Those half hourly wake ups after BT so sound like OT built up during the day to me, so I think you're doing the right thing by extending A times to get out of the UT/OT spiral.

Re the paci, you might find that when he's on a better-suited routine for him the WUs go away and it may be the paci isn't a prop at all. If you need to get rid of it, we can help :)
~ Naomi ~




Offline HollyNF122

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Re: Night wakings
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2014, 18:48:07 pm »
Do you think I should battle the paci issue once we have his sleeping better under control? Also, at what rate should when move up his bedtime? I don't want to throw too much at him at once.

Thanks!

Offline katie80

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Re: Night wakings
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2014, 01:06:16 am »
Hiya, a top-up feed is used most often by BFing mums to give a little extra milk before nap time to help an LO get through a longer A time that they may need to get longer naps, but not yet be ready to stretch to four-hourly feeds. I didn't use them myself as by this age DD was bottle fed and could easily manage four hours. If you want to know more about how to do it it might be best to post the question on the Bf forum as lots of mums there will have used it - while taking care not to develop a snacking habit for their LO, which is counterproductive in the long term.
There's really two ways of doing them. One is to offer another feed 45min-1hr after the initial feed (where solids will eventually be introduced). The other is to offer a small feed 20-30min before nap time. You likely wouldn't need to do either of these until you get to 2hr+ A time. But, I think you mentioned he usually only feeds from one side. If you start feeding him from both, which may naturally happen as you stretch the feeds out, he may not need a top up.

Last night after we put our LO to sleep he woke up a half hour later, then again. Finally, 2 hours after his last feed we thought we would try giving him a bottle. He took 7.5 oz in 5 mins! I know when I nurse him he falls asleep sometimes but I try to wake him. Then after 20 mins or so he acts like he doesn't want anymore. I will burp him and try again but he doesn't act interested.
That sounds like a GS! Its really normal for a NF to come back for a bit around 4mo. I've never fed much from a bottle, so I don't really know, but was just wondering from what you're describing here if there could be a chance he prefers the faster flow of a bottle and therefore takes a fuller feed from that rather than when you offer the breast. :-\

Do you think I should battle the paci issue once we have his sleeping better under control?
It's up to you... do you ultimately want to get rid of it or keep it? If you want to get rid of it then I'd do it now, if not then I'd work on getting the routine sorted and see if the NWs improve and then take it from there.

Also, at what rate should when move up his bedtime? I don't want to throw too much at him at once.
Maybe 20-30min every few nights? You can still offer a BT feed beforehand, which will act like more of a cluster feed until you get it to where you want it.



Offline HollyNF122

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Re: Night wakings
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2014, 17:56:04 pm »
Ok. YesterDAY went so well. We did a 3.5 hour routine. My LO had 1:45 A-Times followed by a 1.5 hour naps. We did an earlier bedtime at 7:30. Our LO seemed a little confused at first but fell asleep fairly quickly. He still woke up multiple times during the night. He was up at 10 and 10:30, so we went ahead and did a dream feed but then he was up again 2 hrs later. We fed him then and another 2 hours later he was up again and up every half hour or so until we fed him. We haven't gotten rid of the paci yet because we have mixed feelings. We don't want it to be a prop and want to get rid of it but in the other hand we thought that if we got his sleep back on track then we can wean him off the paci.

Offline katie80

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Re: Night wakings
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2014, 00:24:07 am »
Ugh, sorry for the rough night. I think you need to give the new routine a few days to a week or so before you expect any drastic changes in NWs. It sounds like he's still hungry in the night, waking so often like that... must still be a GS. I wouldn't worry too much about the paci for now. I think the fact that he can do an uninterrupted nap means that it's not necessarily a prop. (((Hugs)))



Offline HollyNF122

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Re: Night wakings
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2014, 02:33:16 am »
I was thinking it would take a few days too. No worries. When you have barely slept for a week, what's a few more days right? Haha. Thank you for the encouragement! It helps to get through this tough time. I will keep you updated on how the next few days go!